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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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 Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: Shallow Girls and the Men Who Love to Hate Them |
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RR didn't post this yet?  This 된장녀 debate has been overtly big on the Korean internet lately and it's got some spotlights on TV as well. Why is it happening now? What has triggered it? Something to ponder about. Usually when they say 된장녀, it means not only shallow but also men-leeching types.
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200608/200608040017.html
| Digital Chosunilbo wrote: |
Controversy surrounds an Internet-born neologism for terminally shallow women, "doenjang-nyeo." Doenjang is of course the soy bean paste that is one of the cornerstones of Korean cuisine, and -nyeo is the female suffix. But the true origin of the term, it seems, was not the unoffending paste but in the exclamation "jyaenjang" used to express dissatisfaction and roughly translating as "Damn!" But this was softened to the more palatable culinary reference.
One Netizen's satirical account of a day in the life of a doenjang-nyeo runs as follows. "Gets up at 7:30 a.m. to the sound of the cell phone alarm, even though her first class doesn't start till 10, and heads for the bathroom. To give her hair the Jeon Ji-hyun-look, she refuses to use cheap shampoos... she can't eat breakfast because she�s too busy doing her makeup, so she heads for the Dunkin Donuts in front of her school.
"For diet reasons, she orders a straight Americano -- no sugar, no cream -- but then eats donuts crammed with jam and sugar. Same for lunch. Because the doenjang-nyeo knows how precious she is (just like the L'Oreal commercials, she says to herself, 'Because I'm worth it!') she can never be seen eating with the rest of the students at the cafeteria or the student center. The three just don�t mesh.
�The doenjang-nyeo blows in one sitting the amount a regular student spends on food for a week.� Some feel the depiction is more than just a send-up: there is rage there too. Women students say that replies to postings on the topic and copying and reprinting are just perpetuating the dispute.
The Chosun Ilbo wanted to know if there is a grain of truth in the account, asking 249 university students, "Are there so-called 'doenjang' men or women at your campus?" Some 37.4 percent admitted there are plenty of both, and a bitter 18 percent said �basically all female students� would fit into that category. The emotions some people, specifically men, feel when they encounter these types can sometimes translate into self-torment. Proof is in the emergence of another stereotype, the "Gochujang-nam.� Gochujang is the red pepper paste that is also indispensable in every Korean meal, and -nam is the male suffix.
The hapless gochujang-nam clearly exists at the other end of the economic scale from the unattainable doenjang-nyeo. "To save a mere W300 (US$1=W965), he takes the neighborhood bus instead of the city bus. Eating at the school cafeteria is a waste of money, so he heads to the nearest convenience store.� A Netizen called Lee Da-hye demands on a website, "There are plenty of guys out there that are wrapped up vanity too. Why are they only attacking the women? I'm concerned that we may now be seeing the emergence of neo-chauvinist thinking."
Ji Mi-ran (22) is a third-year student at Ewha Woman's University. "I have a couple of friends who are obsessed with their looks, but they�re definitely a minority,� she says. �These days female university students are sticking to the trends, and it's not healthy to ridicule them in a cruel caricature."
Some feel it is Korean men's "army complex" that is at the heart of the doenjang-nyeo hoo-ha. "While we are struggle through two years in the military, girl students go on backpacking vacations, or study foreign languages,� complains Kim Jae-won, who has finished his military service and returned to his studies. �It seems it�s borne out of feeling among men that they are being treated unfairly because women get to enjoy campus life more." In other words, it could be linked to a sense of reverse discrimination after employers started to abolish extra points for male applicants who had served in the military. In our survey, 46.3 percent of male students agreed that reverse discrimination is starting to emerge both on campus and in society as a whole.
Grumblings cover all aspects. "After coming back from the Army, it's hard to get serious about studying again. On top of that, we don't even get bonus points any more," says one respondent. "There is a common room for women in every department of universities, but none for men," complains another. A third sums it up: "Why is 'ladies first' the unquestionable way?" Women's studies scholar Min Ga-young of Hongik University admits, "It�s true that both the doenjang-nyeo and gochoojang-nam exist on campus, but the problem is in extrapolating that all female students are that type and attacking them on that basis." Essentially, the doejang-nyeo debate is not about gender but about economics. "But instead of taking their fight about the burden of military service to the defense or labor ministries, they take it out on the opposite sex," Min adds.
Prof. Kim Jeong-un of Myongji University�s Department of Leisure Management diagnoses the problem as stemming from the realities of youth unemployment and associated stresses. "It�s common for people who are unhappy to construct an imaginary enemy,� Kim says. �Once an object has been identified, a consensus starts to crystallize and mass rage, hostility and illogicality are born."
Sung Young-shin, a psychologist at Korea University, says, she is concerned that the doenjang-nyeo controversy will rekindle old views of all women who care about their appearance as dim. "Male and female students in their 20s, who need a more mature perspective on each other, have instead been galvanized along gender lines by this black-and-white logic,� she adds. �Perpetuating these misconceptions will be bad for both sides." |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| That was a good read, my man. |
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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, good writer thanks man. |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| The piece just aptly described a good portion of my uni students, especially freshmen. Gets worse every year. I've had sinks that were deeper than some of my students. |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: |
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It's an interesting debate. I always thought that the superficiality and all-consuming vanity of the so-called dwenjangnyo types was an offshoot of gender inequality or at least overly rigid gender roles in South Korea. And as such, to decry such women, as long as it's not too person or full of malice, is the opposite of being chauvanist. i guess it's a complicated issue.
I don't know how it adds up from a military standpoint, but the culturally, getting rid of the mandatory service is long overdue. |
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mishlert
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: On the 3rd rock from the sun
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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A couple of example of a 된장녀
http://blog.naver.com/createlife.do?Redirect=Log&logNo=120027609083
It's in Korean, but the basic stuff is easy to translate:
-Hair is done and washed with only the best products
-Coffee is Starbuck's, Coffee Bean, and the such
-Books are from the major, but are only for looks
-Always the latest phone in her hand
-Designer bag |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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sounds like a manifestation of "princess disease"
(what's the Korean term for that again?) |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 공주평. And yeah, you're right. |
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seoulshock
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| indytrucks wrote: |
| 공주평. And yeah, you're right. |
isn't it "병", as in disease? |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| seoulshock wrote: |
| indytrucks wrote: |
| 공주평. And yeah, you're right. |
isn't it "병", as in disease? |
You're right ... a bit of a typo there. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Some feel it is Korean men's "army complex" that is at the heart of the doenjang-nyeo hoo-ha. "While we are struggle through two years in the military, girl students go on backpacking vacations, or study foreign languages,� complains Kim Jae-won, who has finished his military service and returned to his studies. �It seems it�s borne out of feeling among men that they are being treated unfairly because women get to enjoy campus life more."
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This line is kind of funny. Like "okay, golly, you spend two years in the army and these women get a couple years of living for themselves. But you get out of the army, you marry, and your wife slaves away for you for the rest of your married life, raising your kids, cooking your food, buying your underwear, taking care of your parents while, as a Korean male, you enjoy this privileged position in society.
I wonder if you gave young women a choice:
1) Spend two years in the army and enjoy all the rights and privileges of Korean males
2) Not spend two years in the army, but being expected to quit your job before thirty, raise kids, take care of aged in laws, and spend the rest of your natural life slaving away every chuseok holiday while your hubby and his brothers and his uncles sit on their asses.
I dunno. Life ain't so tough for a Korean male. |
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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
I wonder if you gave young women a choice:
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Am I wrong, or do young women get the chance to take their brothers place in the military?
One of the coolest girls I met on an "English MT" was a girl who'd done 2 years of military service for her brother. She was much more.. "sassy" than 99% of the girls in the country. Good times hanging out with her.
Or was this something that happened back in the day and this girl was just talkin crap.. (but still cool as hell) |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Spot on. I'd love to meet a Korean female that did army service. Sassy is good.  |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Quote: |
Some feel it is Korean men's "army complex" that is at the heart of the doenjang-nyeo hoo-ha. "While we are struggle through two years in the military, girl students go on backpacking vacations, or study foreign languages,� complains Kim Jae-won, who has finished his military service and returned to his studies. �It seems it�s borne out of feeling among men that they are being treated unfairly because women get to enjoy campus life more."
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This line is kind of funny. Like "okay, golly, you spend two years in the army and these women get a couple years of living for themselves. But you get out of the army, you marry, and your wife slaves away for you for the rest of your married life, raising your kids, cooking your food, buying your underwear, taking care of your parents while, as a Korean male, you enjoy this privileged position in society.
I wonder if you gave young women a choice:
1) Spend two years in the army and enjoy all the rights and privileges of Korean males
2) Not spend two years in the army, but being expected to quit your job before thirty, raise kids, take care of aged in laws, and spend the rest of your natural life slaving away every chuseok holiday while your hubby and his brothers and his uncles sit on their asses.
I dunno. Life ain't so tough for a Korean male. |
I disagree. I think the rigid roles they got going on here (and elsewhere) are very stifling for both sexes. As they say, you can't hold a man (or woman) down without staying down there with him.
An interesting question is "What Benefits Has Feminism Brought Men?" You could write a term paper about it. One benefit, I think, is that men are allowed to be openly gay. I don't think homophobia could have been conquered if feminism hadn't first come forth and broken down a lot of stereotypes about men and women...uh, is this even on topic anymore? |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Hyeon Eun wrote: |
Am I wrong, or do young women get the chance to take their brothers place in the military?
One of the coolest girls I met on an "English MT" was a girl who'd done 2 years of military service for her brother. She was much more.. "sassy" than 99% of the girls in the country. Good times hanging out with her.
Or was this something that happened back in the day and this girl was just talkin crap.. (but still cool as hell) |
As far as I know, it�s a rumor that a female sibling can do the military service instead of her brother. Even if your wife and five sisters are in the military, you are still subjected to conscription as a healthy Korean male. (not considering specific problems with financial support for other unemployed family members) Here�s a link to an informative page of the Military Manpower Administration site. (in Korean) There is no single mention of that. I don�t know why there�s such a hearsay in the first place.
http://www.mma.go.kr/www_mma3/execution_9_1.jsp
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| This line is kind of funny. Like "okay, golly, you spend two years in the army and these women get a couple years of living for themselves. But you get out of the army, you marry, and your wife slaves away for you for the rest of your married life, raising your kids, cooking your food, buying your underwear, taking care of your parents while, as a Korean male, you enjoy this privileged position in society. |
Then, by the same token, you can say husbands slave away for their wives serving as a money-making machine for the rest of their married life. Koreans work for the longest hours per year among the countries in OECD. Division of work to some degree is natural if one is working and the other is not. Very occasionally, you also see guys take care of a home and their wives exclusively work outside for the income.
It�s some of those unmarried young guys. They can�t keep quiet about having one more duty as a male any more because they began to think their "privileged position" is becoming an old story and young women of today are very different from older generations.
| mindmetoo wrote: |
I wonder if you gave young women a choice:
1) Spend two years in the army and enjoy all the rights and privileges of Korean males
2) Not spend two years in the army, but being expected to quit your job before thirty, raise kids, take care of aged in laws, and spend the rest of your natural life slaving away every chuseok holiday while your hubby and his brothers and his uncles sit on their asses. |
What about this?
3) Not spend two years in the army and enjoy all the rights and privileges of Korean males. (radical feminism of Korean style, not in the reality yet)
Let�s assume women have the same duties as men, which would never happen. If so, you can totally shut up every single grumbling man. The question is, how many people would truly want this to occur?
| Korea Herald wrote: |
[Opinion: Letters to the Editor] Men's work
To the Editor:
Recently both your editorial writer and a female contributor to In My View
expressed utter dismay and disbelief that Korean veterans have gotten so angry
over the constitutional court�s decision to strike down a policy to award
bonus points to the test scores of former soldiers who apply for low-level
government jobs.
The anger of these men makes perfect sense to me. Korean men must give 26
months of their young lives to an army that neither pays them for their
efforts or offers them anything in the way of comfort or perks. Military
service in Korea, according the hundreds of Korean men I have spoken to, is a
tedious period of social and physical deprivation. And it is dangerous. Every
year scores of young Korean men are killed while performing tasks such as
serving in flood rescue operations and fighting off rabid demonstrators on the
streets of Seoul. Yet these fallen heroes receive no tribute. No monuments are
erected in their honor. Their deaths are footnotes
in the news.
What makes the front pages of newspapers and the top stories in TV news shows
in their stead? Feature stories about young women at elite officer training
academies and their "bravery" in being women trying to make it in the Korean
military.
Always in these pieces, which seem to dominate the media now every
Veteran�s Day the same way the several dozen American nurses who served in
the Vietnam war now own that holiday in America, there is some feminist expert
holding forth on the natural right of women to get the top prestige jobs in
the military. It never ceases to amaze me how the expert never mentions
requiring women to share in the hardships of the rank and file. The only
conclusion to be drawn from such blatant omissions is that Korea�s feminists
believe that the dangerous and thankless service of Korea�s half a million
grunts is "men�s work."
In her In My View piece, Sohn Jung-min displayed classic feminist reasoning:
Men should not be compensated, Sohn claimed, for their military service
because women have such hard lives already. Sohn even went so far as to say
that the government should compensate women for doing housework and having
babies, but should not give men a single won for their 26 months of military
service.
Does this make sense to anyone with a brain not poisoned by radical
feminism? Does the government force women to have babies? Who benefits more
from having a baby, the woman who becomes a mother or the government? Yet, how
many young men would go through 26-months of unpaid military hell if the law
didn�t force them to.
I am sure Sohn�s absurd arguments brought cheers among all those horribly
disadvantaged young women at Ehwa University who were responsible for
initiating the lawsuit that killed the test bonus and subsequently destroyed
the morale of the nation�s fighting men.
But how is it that some pampered Ewha princess with her cell phone and
European vacations has the gall to claim that some working class young man
fresh out of getting bottles and rocks thrown at his skull for 26 months of
riot police duty is more "privileged" than she in this society? Feminism would
really be good for some laughs if hadn�t ruined the ability to reason in so
many.
What truly amazes me in this whole affair is that Korean men have not been
more militant in their response to the court�s decision to strip away the
lone benefit of their service. The Herald editorial writers were shocked that
a website got hacked; I am surprised there hasn�t been a full-scale revolt of
the armed forces.
What are these men risking their lives for? A constitution and a nation that
doesn�t forbid the use of young able-bodied men as slave labor (young
soldiers are called out to save the land of wealthy farmers in the rainy
season), but absolutely forbids the awarding of 3 to 5 percent in extra points
for veterans on a test for the lowest possible positions in the government
because it offends the sensibilities of Ewha princesses? Moreover, what is the
big deal about an extra three to five percent in points on a test. It seems to
me that such a miniscule gap could easily be closed with a little bit of extra
study. Oh, I forgot, feminism is not about giving women a chance to prove
themselves; it is about giving women things because they are women.
Were feminism worth the paper its manifestos are printed on, Korea�s women
would be fighting to require that all women be drafted as well as men to serve
the nation for 26 months. But don�t anyone hold his or her breath on that
one. The Ehwa princesses would absolutely die if they had to wear nothing but
green for two years, and the Korean courts, no doubt, would be sensitive to
their pain. |
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