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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: Where's the outrage with Sudan? |
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Why has the international community swiftly condemned the Israel/Lebanon conflict, but has remained silent on Sudan? Annan has talked big on sending an international peacekeeping force to Lebanon. How about Sudan?
Am I missing something here? |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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This war could destabilize the middle east, not good for us Westerners. Sudan's war could destabilize what? Nothing really important to us.
This doesn't make it right in any sense, but it's the truth. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
This war could destabilize the middle east, not good for us Westerners. Sudan's war could destabilize what? Nothing really important to us.
This doesn't make it right in any sense, but it's the truth. |
I agree with what you are saying, but how many people have to die, raped and killed before something is done about it? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| This war could destabilize the middle east, not good for us Westerners. Sudan's war could destabilize what? Nothing really important to us. This doesn't make it right in any sense, but it's the truth. |
I more or less agree.
Still missing one crucial element, however: the U.S. cannot be directly or indirectly blamed or denounced for it. If it could, we would see much more outrage and many more protests over what is happening in the Sudan. |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Bush has just met the Vice President of Sudan/President of South Sudan (one person).
America wants to get the Sudan issue sorted. I remember Colin Powell using the 'genocide' word to describe what was going on there, that was a few years ago.
There was also oil discovered in Southern Sudan a few years ago so that is another reason for America to get the peace process moving.
Sudan has rejected UN proposals for a peacekeeping force in the country, though there are African Union peacekeepers there.
The AU force is not working. I dont know what good another 'peacekeeping' force would do at the moment as there is no peace to keep, a more cynical use of force could be needed to stop whats going on there. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| safeblad wrote: |
Bush has just met the Vice President of Sudan/President of South Sudan (one person).
America wants to get the Sudan issue sorted. I remember Colin Powell using the 'genocide' word to describe what was going on there, that was a few years ago.
There was also oil discovered in Southern Sudan a few years ago so that is another reason for America to get the peace process moving.
Sudan has rejected UN proposals for a peacekeeping force in the country, though there are African Union peacekeepers there.
I dont know what good a 'peacekeeping' force would do at the moment as there is no peace to keep. A more cynical use of force could be needed to stop whats going on there. |
Why hasn't Annan condemned it or has he and the world press has ignored it?
What about China?
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/26.htm |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Why hasn't Annan condemned it or has he and the world press ignored it?
What about China?
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It was Kofi who offered the peacekeepers. Dont know about China. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Where's the outrage with Sudan? |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Why has the international community swiftly condemned the Israel/Lebanon conflict, but has remained silent on Sudan? Annan has talked big on sending an international peacekeeping force to Lebanon. How about Sudan?
Am I missing something here? |
The international community has swiftly and continuously condemned Sudan as well.
There are also all kinds of conflict-related NGO's crawling all over that country.
Most of the debate seems to be along the lines of.. why doesn't the United States government mandatorily send its citizens to die in Sudan.. and if they don't then its true that Americans don't care about them if they aren't willing to send citizens to die there. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| safeblad wrote: |
| Don't know about China. |
You might want to take a good look at Beijing's behavior on the Security Council with respect to what has been going on in the Sudan, where it has many interests... |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| This war could destabilize the middle east, not good for us Westerners. Sudan's war could destabilize what? Nothing really important to us. This doesn't make it right in any sense, but it's the truth. |
I more or less agree.
Still missing one crucial element, however: the U.S. cannot be directly or indirectly blamed or denounced for it. If it could, we would see much more outrage and many more protests over what is happening in the Sudan. |
Give it time, I am surprised some of the people on this board haven't found some sort of link yet 
Sudan does share all of it's letters with The United States of America. There you go. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Where's the outrage with Sudan? |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Why has the international community swiftly condemned the Israel/Lebanon conflict, but has remained silent on Sudan? Annan has talked big on sending an international peacekeeping force to Lebanon. How about Sudan?
Am I missing something here? |
Have you seen the movie 'Hotel Rwanda'? There's a line in it that says something like 'there are no votes for them (belgium/the west) here'. Basically means that they will not benefit in any way from intervening, so they will just let them slaughter each other...  |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| The time, energy and millions of $ spent on 'liberating' Iraq would have been much better spent on people who would actually appreciate it, like the non-Muslims (mostly Christians and Animists) of the Southern Sudan, and the black Muslims of Darfur. The West could have helped build stable, pro-Western democratic states in places where a Western influence would have been appreciated. American troops would have been treated truly as liberators in these areas rather than occupying 'infidels'. Instead, we are helping Muslims to build anti-Western Shariah societies in Iraq and Afghanistan, all the while getting killed for doing so. |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:57 am Post subject: |
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People are dying in sudan due to the success of Left wing pressure. Occupying another land, shooting Muslims, shooting brown people, Abu Graib, Gitmo, everything that bush does is wrong etc.
Oh yea...
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There was also oil discovered in Southern Sudan a few years ago so that is another reason for America to get the peace process moving.
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Yea, m1m. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| The West could have helped build stable, pro-Western democratic states in places where a Western influence would have been appreciated |
Britain and France colonized this part of the world for the best part of a century. If democracy was going to be planted, they had the time to do it. If they failed to do it, it is their failure.
[/quote]Have you seen the movie 'Hotel Rwanda'? There's a line in it that says something like 'there are no votes for them (belgium/the west) here'. Basically means that they will not benefit in any way from intervening, so they will just let them slaughter each other...
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People everywhere in the world have been raping, pillaging and plundering each other for as long as written records have been kept, and the bad behavior seems to have been going on a lot longer than that. People saying 'someone else should come in and lose some blood straightening out what we locals have created' is just a way of blaming the foreigners. I don't buy it. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| Britain and France colonized this part of the world for the best part of a century. If democracy was going to be planted, they had the time to do it. If they failed to do it, it is their failure. |
I am not talking about colonization. I am talking about helping those countries throw off the yoke of Muslim oppression and/or Arab imperialism. To that end, we should help those who will actually appreciate such efforts and who will establish peaceful, secular democratic societies. Look at the difference between the Kurdish and Arab, particularly Sunni, areas of Iraq. The Kurdish areas are generally peaceful, and appreciate the redevelopment occuring there. They do not hate the infidels so much that they would sabotage such development by murdering the very people involved in such redevelopment. They can look forward to self-government and possible independence from Arab supremacy, and we should help them in this endeavour. Western intervention would have the same result in Darfur and Southern Sudan.
Let's stop wasting time, men and money building Shariah states in Afghanistan and Iraq. The men who died in WW2 can say that they helped to build a democratic Europe and a stable and democratic Japan. The men who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan will have helped to build Islamic, anti-Western and wholly intolerant societies. A tragic waste. |
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