Korean Job Discussion Forums

[crimsonlily]

OMG.
I want to know - does anyone know the facts? I've heard it's illegal, but still done. Is it in fact illegal? Yet some Korean teachers (and some foreign teachers) still practice it? A teacher just whacked a kid over the head and made him kneel on the floor for an indefinite amount of time. This isn't bordering on abuse, this is harsh physical violence. Is there anything foreign teachers can do other than walk on eggshells? I feel so ineffectual - just ignoring it like everyone else. Ugg.

[ajgeddes]

I don't think you need to walk on eggshells, they aren't going to punish and hit you. What can you do about it? You can accept it because you are in Korea. However, you can always voice your opinion, and if your co-workers realize how you feel about it, perhaps they will no longer do it in your presence. From what I have seen mostly, the pain rarely lasts for more than a moment and if it does get worse, the teachers know they have done something wrong.

You need to ask yourself this question. Did you come here to change the Korean school system?

[crimsonlily]

I am thinking I will say something later on to the teacher. Along the lines of "that was really harsh." But yeah, how much of a difference will it make? Probably not too much - and so what if it still happens, just not in my presence. Ugg.

[TheUrbanMyth]

I wouldn't call that harsh physical violence. A savage beating would qualify, but a cuff to the head and making someone kneel(unless it is for a long time) is not abuse or harsh physical violence.

That said too many teachers go overboard with the hitting. I've heard that it is illegal, but still widely practiced...although it is getting better. Not that long ago it was considered acceptable to beat students for stepping on the teacher's shadow.

I've managed to stop a few beatings by distracting the said teachers (getting them to show me how to operate the VCR by pretending I don't know how, is one method I've used with success.) Cools them down.

[crimsonlily]

Not a smack on the head, a huge whack with a book! And it's sports day. And the kid has been kneeling for like an hour or more while people come and go. I've been here long enough, I know kids must do poses (kneeling, arms up, etc) and I've seen kids with welts - like some nurple thing done to them by teachers on their arms. And kids having a little smack on the head or ears pulled. But yeah, this seems pretty serious.

BUT - please ignore these details. I'm just wondering if anyone knows for sure if this is in fact illegal and what I can do to stop this (without taking legal measures). It really sucks to not be able to do anything.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

If you've been at that school for a while and a whack to the head with a book is the worst you've seen then you're doing OK.

On Tuesday at my middle school I saw four girls, including one of my favourite students, get about the worst caning I've ever seen and then their homeroom teacher slapped them each across the head for good measure. If it had been my first month in Korea I think I would have completely flipped out, but I just kept on making my photocopies. I really wish they wouldn't hit them on the head but Koreans don't seem to think that's wrong. I actually don't have a problem with controlled corporal punishment anymore - it's not used that often at my school and, while other measures might be preferable at times, it does really work as a deterent.

[poet13]

The korean teacher at my hakwon used to use corporal punishment. Thin cane/stick on the hands. The most common reason was homework not done. We take classes for 30 minutes each. I came in one day and one of the boys had purple bruises across his hands. After school I invited the teacher out for a beer and politely told him that beating a child was wrong in any culture, and that it was the teachers lack of skill and imagination that led to his need to use a stick. I also politely informed him that if he ever hit one of "my boys" again, I would beat about 50 IQ points out of him. He never hit another child.
My kids love roughhousing, and we've had a few bumps, bruises, and even a messy bloody nose (mine), but its all in good fun.
Corporal punishment is wrong. I have heard it is illegal also, but as OP said, still common.


sorry for the diatribe.......its one of my "go buttons"

[sheeon]

teachers can infact dish out corporal punishment as long as they use a certain sized stick.
But, usually, teachers choose to ignore it. I saw a custom made beating stick shaped like a mini cricket bat, with handle especially designed to deliver a massive force per swing.

The point is, it is still legal in Korea to beat the crap out of kids.

[Rteacher]

There have been a few threads on this subject, and I just bumped the most recent one from a couple months ago. Here's the link:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=791390#791390

[Woland]

Beating anyone, especially children, is wrong. If we believe that, then we need to act on it by letting people know how we feel at the very least. It will not fix everything, but it may deter some people on some occasions.

As poet13 points out, the resort to violence is a sign of lack of imagination in dealing with a problem. It's also a sign of lack of knowledge. The evidence is clear that punitive approaches to discipline are only short term effective, producing temporary obedience. In the long term, they generate resistance to learning. And if our goal is learning, rather than obedience, we fail by beating children.

Do you ever wonder why so many children hate school, why so many adults are resistant to learning later in life? Learning should be fun, and school should be a place children look forward to coming to because they are having fun learning. For this to happen, there needs to be some discipline and order, but teacher education programs need to prepare teachers to achieve this without violence.

Ten years ago, shortly after I first arrived in Korea, there was a story in the news of how a teacher had caught a high school student smoking and beat the student so badly that it resulted in permanent brain damage. What made the news was the shocking action by the parents in suing the teacher. Sadly, they lost; the judge ruled that the teacher was within the law in disciplining the student.

Apparently, things haven't changed much.

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

For those who don't have the time or inclination to read through the lengthy thread I linked to in the "General" forum, one of the points that we generally agreed on was that corporal punishment administered by Korean teachers probably should not be given up "cold turkey" because it's so heavily relied on for both classroom management and a basic teaching technique.

The Korean school administrators tried banning it, but the Korean teachers almost unanimously protested that they couldn't manage without it... I think that all key parties understand that as teachers receive better training, and more counseling services become available, the reliance on corporal punishment will be gradually phased out. Western teachers should cooperate by demonstrating better class-management and teaching methods. Trying to confrontationally intervene, undermining the authority of Korean teachers doing what they see as their traditional duties, will probably make matters worse. (And many parents and students see no major problem with corporal punishment being administered by Korean authorities...)

[jvalmer]

One of the reasons you see elementary aged children running around in public places is because Koreans tend not to discipline pre-teen children. They expect schools to do most of the discipline at that age and into high-school.

[oldfatfarang]

You really hit my 'go button' with this thread.
Have any of you 'teachers' out there actually experienced 'corporal punishment' ???

I think if you had gone to my schools you would not condone the use of corporal punishment. Especially if you had received the punishment adminstered by our 'teachers'. They liked to call this 'giving us the cane'. In fact, it was just state-sanctioned assault and a way for second-rate teachers to keep the kids quiet.

There are only 2 words to describe 'teachers' who beat children (that's what they are) - with sticks, canes, straps, fists etc.
These 'teachers' are cowards - and sadists. They certainly do not deserve to be called a 'teacher' or an 'educator'.
Thankfully, corporal punishment is now illegal in my country (and most civilised countries). Any 'teacher' who hits/beats a child in my country now will go to prison for 'assault'.

If you hear Korean teachers or parents say corporal punishment is needed for 'discipline', and to get 'good academic results', just ask them why Scandanavian, German, and Dutch kids (who are not beaten) get good degrees and jobs.

My Hakwon used to make a kid kneel and hold his hands in the air as punishment. I told the Director, and his co-teaching wife - that in 'civilised' countries this is considered torture. And that the 'teacher' doing this would be charged with assault. Apparently, Koreans are very sensitive to being called 'uncivilised' as no teacher does this punishment at my school anymore.

[SPINOZA]

I can see where you're coming from Rainbowtrout. Obviously - and I mean very obviously - physically punishing children is a negative phenomenon. It'd be better if it didn't happen.

But cases where a child is beaten senseless are extremely rare and in my opinion the benefits of minimal corporal punishment far outweigh the bad things. I see kids get whacked with 'the stick' many times per day by different teachers and it's never THAT severe. My only problem with corporal punishment is that it's done in Korea - where a kid's offence is probably not saying 요 - and not our countries. In schools back home, kids genuinely deserve to be beaten. They're evil kids. They're the products of evil families who should not be allowed to reproduce. They're just pure evil, don't deserve life. If you could see the things I saw as a child - being beaten and bullied by kids at school who knew they could get away with it, because they weren't beaten - you might revise your opinion and say that an enormous, unforgettably-painful thrashing would do many people the world of good. The real problem with whacking kids (in Korea) is that the kid probably hasn't committed the gravest of offences and the teacher is way too strict. But take away corporal punishment, and you'll have a situation where kids do things that do deserve severe reprisals. Better the devil you know if you ask me.

Another point: Kids being hit is something OP will have to put up with. If you think for one second that Weaguk teacher voicing his/her whiny, liberal opinion is going to make a scrap of difference to discipline at your school, you're living on Fantasy Island.