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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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 Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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It sucks that they won't let him speak Arabic, but he's still a dirty traitor in the eyes of his government. I wouldn't question who the terrorist is, because if you go up in arms against your own home government and lose, they're gonna *beep* you up, regardless of which country you're from.
If you join a ragtag group of guerillas, carry grenades and guns, and get caught in a raid by your homeland's government, you're a terrorist, plain and simple. Common sense. He's lucky he got off with this punishment, because who knows what would have happened if the situation were reversed. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ...if that's what you were getting at |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| [quote="djsmnc"]It sucks that they won't let him speak Arabic, but he's still a dirty traitor in the eyes of his government. I wouldn't question who the terrorist is, because if you go up in arms against your own home government and lose, they're gonna *beep* you up, regardless of which country you're from. |
1. He was fighting the Northern Alliance, not the United States, and according to the article, were doing quite well. Then the US showed up, and the got the hell out, full retreat, killing dozens in friendly fire in the panic.
| Quote: |
| If you join a ragtag group of guerillas, carry grenades and guns, and get caught in a raid by your homeland's government, you're a terrorist, plain and simple. |
2. That's your definition of a terrorist? The point of the article, in my opinion, was that Lindh did not have anything to do with Al Quaida (sic). He was fighting for the Taliban. Although they are despised by Westerners and probably many Muslims, they were the government of Afghanistan until the US/coalition forces invaded. Again, by my definition, the Americans, acting as the aggression in a sovereign land, would be the only ones who could be categorized as terrorists in the scenario. Certainly the Taliban could not possibly fall under the definition of terrorists.
Anyway, I think you totally missed the point of the article, if you read it.
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Esquire quote:
And he will get out. Unless the worst fears of his parents come to pass, he will get out, either when the Bush administration itself gets out and a more righteous man is elected, or at his scheduled release in 2019. But he will get out, and the question is not what he will be like�that we know�but what we will be like. For Hamza Walker Lindh has come to embody the challenge of Islam to America, and the challenge is simply this: In response to what America has done to him, Hamza has become more Islamic�more himself, and a better Muslim. And in response to what Hamza has done to it, America has become less properly Christian, and ever less democratic, and ever so much less than itself. It is a simple, remorseless calculus, and it will transform the face of the country Hamza is released into, whenever he is released.
For so it is that Hamza will be free to say what he knows, in the language of God.
And so it is that Hamza will finally speak, and America will have to hear. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: |
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He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Shit happens in that type of situation. It would have been like fighting alongside the VC against the South Vietnamese before the US military came in.
I don't really think he was a terrorist, but in the eyes of the government, if you are caught with weapons, hanging out with the enemy on the other side, you're pretty much a traitor and terrorist as far as they or anyone else is really concerned. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. *beep* happens in that type of situation. It would have been like fighting alongside the VC against the South Vietnamese before the US military came in.
I don't really think he was a terrorist, but in the eyes of the government, if you are caught with weapons, hanging out with the enemy on the other side, you're pretty much a traitor and terrorist as far as they or anyone else is really concerned. |
Well...yeah. I know. But the point is that Lindh has been portrayed in one light, as the arch-terrrorist, when from my reading, he doesn't fit that description at all. It is very telling that American government actions are so dismissed, when they violate international laws, UN charters ,you name it, all in the name of "the war on terror". The author says at the end, what does this say about us? I don't understand how a nation of people who profess to stand for the free-est of the free, can so readily take away the freedom of so many. As long as Americans keep going along with this song-and-dance, the CIA, White House, and government agencies will continue to have a free reign on the liberties of all people, including Americans. It's just shocking the slippery slope that is being tolerated, encouraged even. I guess Americans have more important things to worry about, like sports and shopping. |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| JWL is messed up because his dad is gay. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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he begins calling himself Suleyman al-Faris and sets about trying to master the language of the Prophet, peace be upon him.
Why does the author need to keep repeating this Islamic affectation? |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| I guess Americans have more important things to worry about, like sports and shopping. |
For me it's Dave's. Anyhow, there's bureaucratic BS that leads to these kinds of BS punishments all the time. If the Esquire magazine leads to a lot of negative publicity, sure, there may be a chance that something will change.
Ask the average American on the street, however, and you're gonna have to remind them that John Walker Lindh was the American Taliban guy..."Remember? Back in 2001?" A number of people probably still won't know what the hell you're talking about. If you were to tell them this story and your thoughts on the situation, you may even get a reaction like "Anyway, he's a damn Muslim, and all those bastards are terrorists anyway."
Some people will be like "Damn, that's fucked up" and will widen their eyes for a minute maybe.
The VERY FEW who do care MAY be influenced to protest against human rights, but they probably won't be proactive about that situation alone.
Last time I was in Washington DC, about two months ago, I saw a few Chinese protestors handing out flyers about the Falun Gong, a big sign that said "Mommy, don't cut my p e n i s" in protest of infant circumcisions, a workers strike against a construction company, and a fat lady with a fluorescent pink sign lambasting the government about Iraq in front of the White House. JWL is probably the last thing on peoples' minds. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| He was fighting for the Taliban. Although they are despised by Westerners and probably many Muslims, they were the government of Afghanistan until the US/coalition forces invaded. |
A government which knowingly sheltered Al Qaeda, and which was one of the most oppressive on earth. Let's not make this idiot to be some kind of Gandhi figure following a path to spiritual enlightenment. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Wiki sez:
On December 12, 2001, David Letterman's Top Ten List on The Late Show was "Top Ten Excuses of the American Taliban Guy."
10. "Terrorist training camps looked a lot nicer in the brochure"
9. "I didn't join the Taliban, I was interning for the Taliban"
8. "I lost a Super Bowl bet"
7. "Dazzled by the Taliban commercials that aired during one of Kathie Lee's Ramadan specials"
6. "What kid doesn't grow up dreaming of being the next Mullah Omar?"
5. "Al Qaeda? Oh man, I thought I was fighting for Ralph Nader"
4. "Since when is fighting against your country with an evil terrorist regime considered treason?"
3. "Got tired of wearing clean clothes and not getting shot at"
2. "Like you've never joined an international terrorist ring!"
1. "Oh, I thought this was a paintball game" |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Who do I bother?  |
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