Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Derrek]

Has anyone worked for this place, or with a Mr. Shin? He seemed like a very nice person. Any comments would be appreciated!

[bucheon bum]

and you'd choose to work for a ybm/ecc branch because....

[Derrek]

Pay is not bad if you figure in the hours. They count actual minutes though. And overtime is available.

Please tell me why they are not good? I only ask because I've heard people say negative stuff, but haven't heard exactly why. Mostly it seems to accumulate around pay rate, but I'd like to get some more feedback.

I do have other offers.

[bucheon bum]

well you have the pay-rate thing, as you noted. They say 120 hours, and they mean hours, not classes. And you have to pay for housing usually. Not all of it, but some of it. If it is an ECC you're looking at (and not an adult YBM school) then you have split shifts as well. Teaching PE to kindergarten students sucks as well. Basically what it comes down to is there are better hogwons to work for out there.

[Derrek]

Well, either ECC has changed, or this is just different? The shifts aren't split that much. Hours are between 10am and 6 or 7pm with a minor split happening at the lunch break. You can work a later start and a later end if you want. I want to be out by 7 at the latest.

Housing is single and provided near the school. The only drawback is that it wasn't air conditioned. Pay was only 1.9, but that was for only 25 hours. Overtime is paid after that.

Didn't sound that bad.

[eamo]

I liked my year at ECC Seongnam because the curriculum was easy-going which left lots of time to mess about with the kids.

As far as I know ECC are paying 1.8 (for new teachers) which sounds low but thats only for 90 hours. Overtime kicks in pretty often. I never earned less than 2.0 PM at ECC.

Also my director was rich so perks were plentiful.

I'd go back to an ECC again. No problem

[bucheon bum]

what about working saturdays? there's also that.

[Derrek]

No saturdays in this contract, FYI.

[bucheon bum]

wel that's good, about the saturdays.

You said 25 hours, is that per week? I'll assume that is.. So 25 hours= 37.5 classes (40 minute classes), which is a LOT. There is no way you'd get overtime.

The most classes I taught at ECC was 33/week. That was fairly tiring, another 4 classes would be pretty bad.

ECC isn't the worst by any means. You won't get ripped off and there is a limit to the BS that goes on. The reason people bash ECC is there are simply better deals out there.

For instance mine: 120 classes/month. In reality the most classes i've had in a month is 23, but regardless.. my hours, if they were maxed out, would be 2:20-8:10 every day. Throw in 30-40 minutes of prep time each day and your working hours are about 1:45 -8:10, not that bad.

And my contract is typical for non-kindegarten children hogwons, THAT is why ECC has a bad rap these days.

[Lost Seoul]

Here are some previous posts about ECC/YBM/Sisa franchise:

Not sure if the Daechi Kangnam branch is mentioned but even if it isn't it may give you some idea of how the franchise is run in general. Ask for the EMail addresses of the other foreign teachers at the institute and ask them what its like. Ask many questions, seek many opinions, then, finally, trust your own instincts.
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http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/asia/sefer.cgi?display:988047166-6182.txt
Chris
[email protected]
English Teacher
Italy
Posted: Unknown

I am currently working in the Italian state school system, where I enjoy a very professional working methodology, and where my confidence in the ESL profession has been fully restored following my return from South Korea.
My statement is simply this, that the ECC/YBM franchises who buy into the main companies name are unregulated by the that head office, and as such the Directors of these private schools are free to treat teachers in any manner they see fit. There are no doubt good schools, but few teachers who leave positive statements about them actually leave the name of the school they work for, so it's difficult to estimate just how many good ECC schools actually operate.
I spent many hours corresponding to the ECC/YBM head office concerning the treatment I was receiving - and yes that treatment was very distasteful (I would be happy to share that experience with any new teacher deciding on a school for the first time). The head office appeared very concerned, and at least for that I am thankful, but no action was, or has to my knowledge been taken.
English teachers did remain following my departure, and their determination to stay with their contracts will always impress me, they are the backbone of ESL. For me, I was pushed further and deeper into a no win situation and was forced to leave - to my deep regret, as I met wonderful friends and simply loved South Korea.
A few points:
1. ECC head office must regulate the Directors buying their name OR continue to take the massive onslaught of negative comments, which teachers have the right to express.
2. Teachers working for professional, responsible ECC franchises should leave the name of that school for all to see.
3. Much of the problems seem to start from the foundations of TEFL; Cheap, unprofessional TEFL courses, terrible recruiters and then the schools.
4.If you are in a unpleasent situation, then always remember you are the professional. I always thought that myself, and now I work to the high standard I expected from ESL teaching.
Well, there's my little contribution to Daves, I hope it was a little constructive and not too angry in its tone.

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http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/asia/sefer.cgi?display:988902650-15265.txt
Allain B. [email protected]
For my own security I prefer not to say where I am at this moment.
Posted: May 16, 2001

Yet another "Korean" experience. In the last three weeks 5 Experienced ESL teachers quit working for ECC (Located in 'Howon Dong' area in the City of 'Uijanboo' near Seoul).
The reason for my leaving:
1- 'Extreme Rudeness' and sometimes violent behavior from the owners Mr. & Mrs. YU, towards employers who demanded basic respect.
Other teachres - Mike, Zac, Jullie, and a Korean teacher named May secretly left the city without getting in serious discustions with the owners. I on the other hand stayed and demanded the owners respect and honesty; as they could not swallow their misplaced pride, before an "unworthy employer" they actually tried to get into physical fight with me. Their attempt was stopped by interference of my Korean friend. I now think the other teachers were wiser than I was. I will be taking propper legal action to put these pepole where they belong.

2- 'Dishonest Contracts' that would force us, the teachers work for our 10 days annual vacations that were supposed to be Paid vacations. These smartly written contracts would also allow the school to spread our class hours and give us classes anytime of the day or night.

3- 'State of Chaos', we were not given the books we needed to teach the students from, our teachers room was in fact a narrow balcony turned into a room for 12 teachers, you can imagine how we had to actually push our way through to be able to rest on a chair during the breaks. I had t borrow books from my students to be able to teach them!!

4- 'Home On The Railroad'; I was given a flat in a house right next to the busy Railroad track/Subway that runs between Seoul and Uijanboo, with trains passing every five minutes. Needless to say,most nights I had a hard time going to sleep. Can you imagine just to save $20 to $30 a month, YUs chose to rent a flat there and not in the next block!

**Be aware: These pepole will do anything to get new teachers. They have already told me that if I put my experience with them on the Net, they will fight back. Also this school owner has 3 ECC schools in Uijanboo City, and as he has been desperate for teachers, he have used his business friends such as 'Korea Herald Kids School' to help him recruit new teachers.

The amazing thing is that these people prefer paying lots of money to hire new teachers, over changing their abusive behavior and dishonest contracts to encourage the teachers to stay and not to quit!

I will gladly support you with more inforamtion if need be.

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http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/asia/sefer.cgi?display:989579792-15656.txt
May 11, 2001
Posted: May 16, 2001
Barry VanAlstine
[email protected]
Pukpundang, South Korea

I just read the ECC message. There may be some franchise schools that may have shady directors, but ECC Pukpundang isn't one of them.
I'm not the school director or anyone else of authority here. I'm just a teacher that has worked at the school for almost 3 years.
A few points about our school:
1) It is a branch, NOT a franchise. As such our manager has to answer to his higher ups.
2) Mr. Je is a great manager. He is honest and friendly. He helps out whenever he can.
3) To my knowledge nobody has ever been cheated on their paychecks or wrongfully dismissed (or "rightfully dismissed for that matter)
In conclussion, let me say this. There are teachers that may have had a very bad experience with some of the schools, but ECC Pukpundang isn't one of those schools. I have enjoyed my time here and am currently planning on extending my contract for another year.

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http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/asia/sefer.cgi?display:1030329309-9253.txt
Posted: August 25, 2002
I was at ECC wonju for one year. I know, ECC is supposed to be pretty bad, but the one I was at wasn't that that way. It is a franchise and doesn't follow all the ECC guidelines (for better or worse) including the contract. There is no deposit you have to make or any crap like that other ECC schools pull. When I arrived, I did have a morning Saturday class, but my boss axed it a few months later. All in all, it is not a bad place to start out. You always get paid on time and the apt. is ok, nothing special. Wonju is somewhat of a boring place, but fairly close to Seoul.
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warning re ecc gwangju
Posted By: Louis Guilbault <"mailto:[email protected]?subject=warning re ecc gwangju">
Date: Tuesday, 24 September 2002, at 5:35 p.m.
Warning re: ECC Gwangju, Korea
Canadian Recruiter: Glenn Alexander, English Teachers Overseas, Vancouver
By Louis Guilbault, Victoria, BC
Glenn tells potential recruits to ECC things that aren&#8217;t true, and does NOT mention that most teachers are expected to work split shifts.
Glenn&#8217;s lines: &#8220;A five day workweek is under discussion&#8221; - NOT TRUE
&#8220;You get approximately a week&#8217;s holiday three times a year&#8221; - NOT TRUE. You get four days off. Four days ain&#8217;t no week.
&#8220;There is an unpaid three-day orientation&#8221; - NOT TRUE. I hung around for more than two weeks doing a Mickey Mouse orientation, when I could&#8217;ve been working in Canada.
At ECC Gwangju, you will almost certainly work split shifts, and you work 288 days a year. Canadian public schools go 194. This place makes money big time. Some people like this setup, many burn out, and many quit. Korea&#8217;s a totally cool place. Shop around.

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http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook
No.108 : ALL ECC"S
Name: Steven Date: 2002-11-07 14:26:27 View: 165
I wanted to start a discussion on how ECC has annoyed people. just post
your comment.

ECC Daerim is not a good place to work. Supervisor name is Kimerbley,
and many foreign teachers have had many problems with her. Alot have left
as a result of her wrong doing. She is hardline and has a hatred or foreign
teacher after seeing so many come and go. She has work for 10 yrs in
English school and doesn't communicate with the foreign teachers. She
only communicate by email or through the korean partner teachers.
The seniour korean teachers in the school informed me of her attitude to
foreign teachers. Having work for this long has made her bitter and she
presumes all foreign teachers are only in korean to drink beer and party
everynight and neglect their teacher duties.
You would expect an understanding supervisor not to hold pre-concieved
notion on foreigners. She is a racist for holding these views.
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http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook
No.108 's Reply : Re: ALL ECC"S
Name: Ashlee Date: 2003-02-20 01:09:26 View: 5
ECC DAERIM SUCK BIG TIME - so do the students and the owner - i left
pronto and was happy to give them the airfare, visa money and relocation fee
back as well as pay for anotherflight to japan to get out of the shonky under
PAID contract - good luck to those still working there - now I have a fab job in
Hongik better pay better house (ie no SHARING) better students and life is
grand. Steven where r u? what happened when u left?
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http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook
No.108 's Reply : Re: ALL ECC"S
Name: Christine Date: 2002-11-07 14:29:48 View: 69

Stay away from ECC Banpo!
You've been warned.

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http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook
No.111 : ECC Seodaemun-gu
Name: Louis Date: 2002-11-26 09:54:12 View: 58
I was fired from ECC after having worked there for five months. I consider it
to be a tremendous favor on their part as I was miserable there and am
much happier at my new school. I feel awful for the folks who are still there
and afraid to test the waters for something better. The school has the usual
flaws, inefficiency, disorganization etc. What it also has is a fascist for a
director. The mind games and abuse that this women inflicts on her
workers is a crime. It is difficult to elucidate here. Psychological warfare is
really the best analogy I can offer. If she doesnt like a teacher, she abuses
them until they break or leave or both. There is no cultural
misunderstanding here, this women is a petty, vindictive and evil person.
Also, the owners of the school are dishonest and cannot be relied upon to
fullfill their contractual obligations. I would suggest that anyone considering
working at this school, consider otherwise.


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http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook
No.114 : YBM Sisa ECC franchise in Jeonju
Name: J Date: 2002-12-02 22:36:20 View: 43
YBM Sisa ECC franchise in Jeonju.
By .
YBM Sisa ECC franchise in Jeonju.By .
For firing a teacher who posted something negative about the school on
www.eslcafe.com

She called the boss a liar and he fired her.

We want to know why she called him a liar and why he could not provide
her with a warning bout posting messages about the school instead of firing
her????

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http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=203
kimcheeking

Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 296
Location: Land of the Morning Calm
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:50 am Post subject:

my advice is to avoid SISA, any SISA. I worked at chongno about 4 years ago... I was not impressed and felt like I was a dilbert like drone in a machine that didn't know who I was or cared about anything. Plus I felt that they really treated the Korean staff poorly- this caused tension in the office.
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http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook

No.150 : Mr. John, ECC Namyangju
Name: LBWood
Date: 2003-03-26 18:59:39
View: 7

I am writing this message to warn all who are considering teaching in
Korea to avoid Jeon Byong-O (AKA "Mr. John") of ECC Namyangju. The
school is actually owned by Kwan Hye Jin, but is is operated by the
aformentioned Mr. John, who may be her husband.

Mr. John is one of the worst bosses you could ever have the misfortune of
having. He is greedy, stingy, and short-tempered, with little ability to think
logically. Because of this, the atmosphere and morale in the school is
extremely poor. His attitude is that since he has paid a recruiter fee the
teacher is thus his property. In my case, because I had teaching
experience he actually tried to sell me to another school for profit.

Even worse, he is an unrepentant criminal. My contract stipulated that from
my salary 3.3% Korean taxes and 4.5% pension was to be deducted, and
that the pension money would be refunded when I left Korea. When my
year drew to an end I found that he had been committing tax and pension
fraud. He had not remitted either amount to the government. I expected to
get a 9% lump-sum pension refund (my 4.5%, plus the employer's 4.5%)
from the pension corporation, but found that he had not even registered with
the pension corporation despite being required to do so by law.

With the help of the International Tax Office of the National Tax Service,
and the Ministry of Labour, I was able to get most of my 4.5% pension
contribution refunded. At the time of the final refund however, he attacked
me physically and I had to flee the building (fortunately with the money
already in hand).

Take my word for it, you do not need this kind of person in your life. There
is also some reason to believe that the tax fraud is being committed on the
advice of ECC's head office, so I would suggest you avoid the entire chain.
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http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=2877
Homer

Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 198
Location: Good ole dirty Busan
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2003 2:06 pm
Post subject:

Worked at an ECC in Busan for 2 years. It was a good place to work.
No cheating on the contract. Lived up to all they said.
was a 6 day schedule but that was standard bac