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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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Speakerz
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| I agree, give it the real sticky icky. |
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jjmonkey
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:48 am Post subject: agreed |
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I agree, a sticky is needed.
The search function on the forum can be problematic sometimes. quotes don't seem to work and using certain common words like"in" "and" "the" always bring me to an error page. It would be nice to be able to search the forum for school names and use quotes. I find this forum to be more useful then some of the black list sites, since there is often feedback from others.
Also, some of the sites in the list seem to be completely out of date or don't have anything on them...
Which one do you think is best? |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Korean school blacklists here: |
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That is a good one. also, these..
One of the most valuable sites for teachers looking to understand their rights is www.efl-law.org There are a number of things you should look for before signing a contract. EFL-Law.org has a very comprehensive guide to contract information at www.efl-law.org/contracts.html There is also a very useful FAQ , a discussion forum, and a lot more valuable information on that site for teachers.
The Hagwon Checklist www.hagwonchecklist.com
A free site that gives teachers a chance to review a school as well as find multiple perspectives from a variety of teachers about a school. Teachers submitting their schools rate them as "great, good, poor or unacceptable".
The Mother of Greylists www.geocities.com/koreagraylist
This site provides alphabetical listings of schools in Korea that have received complaints and the complaints in question.
The Korean Hagwon Blacklist www.geocities.com/hagwonblacklist/
The goal of this site is to: "make it extremely difficult for schools who have previously mistreated teachers to find new recruits. We aim to do this by letting other teachers, as well as recruiters, and the schools themselves know who is blacklisted and why."
The Korean Schools White List www.geocities.com/teflgroup/koreawhitelist.html
The mission statement of this site is to provide information about decent, "white listed" schools so all teachers (new and seasoned) will know about the "good schools" that treat people fairly.
English School Watch www.englishschoolwatch.org/index.php
This site provides a forum on which one can "blacklist" a school as well as some helpful information about working overseas.
ESL Teachers Board www.eslteachersboard.com
Most schools on their "School Review" board are Chinese, but there are a few Korean schools on the list.
Leon's Greylist www.efl.htmlplanet.com/greylist.htm
This page is for those looking to become expatriate English teachers in Korea, and/or for those expats already in-country experiencing labor-related problems. It primarily functions as a watch list of institutions to watch out for. Secondarily, this page contains copious amounts of advice on how to deal with many possible problems in the Republic of Korea.
Blacklisted www.blacklists2003.proboards13.com/
Information Sites about Teaching Conditions in Korea |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: |
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We're presently debating this.
How do we ensure that any blacklist is fair and has merit?
While most teachers' complaints are legitimate, there are also examples of "don't work at this school" because of other factors like personality/cultural clashes or newbs not being used to the uniquely Korean way of doing things. So is the school good or bad?
There are so many variables at play. What may be dismissed as a "minor irritations" by one teacher may well send another over the edge. There are also cases where people make very serious claims against a school bordering on criminal.
We seldom get another side of the story except in cases like this:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=64290
What should be taken at face and what shouldn't? Suggestions for ensuring any blacklist would be fair are welcome. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| A hogwon blacklist would put some power back in teachers hands. |
I agree. But how can one tell what's whinging or BS and what isn't?
It's an open question to all and for which I do not have an answer. |
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pdxsteve
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Korean school blacklists here: |
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| Julius wrote: |
That is a good one. also, these..
One of the most valuable sites for teachers looking to understand their rights is www.efl-law.org There are a number of things you should look for before signing a contract. EFL-Law.org has a very comprehensive guide to contract information at www.efl-law.org/contracts.html There is also a very useful FAQ , a discussion forum, and a lot more valuable information on that site for teachers.
The Hagwon Checklist www.hagwonchecklist.com
A free site that gives teachers a chance to review a school as well as find multiple perspectives from a variety of teachers about a school. Teachers submitting their schools rate them as "great, good, poor or unacceptable".
The Mother of Greylists www.geocities.com/koreagraylist
This site provides alphabetical listings of schools in Korea that have received complaints and the complaints in question.
The Korean Hagwon Blacklist www.geocities.com/hagwonblacklist/
The goal of this site is to: "make it extremely difficult for schools who have previously mistreated teachers to find new recruits. We aim to do this by letting other teachers, as well as recruiters, and the schools themselves know who is blacklisted and why."
The Korean Schools White List www.geocities.com/teflgroup/koreawhitelist.html
The mission statement of this site is to provide information about decent, "white listed" schools so all teachers (new and seasoned) will know about the "good schools" that treat people fairly.
English School Watch www.englishschoolwatch.org/index.php
This site provides a forum on which one can "blacklist" a school as well as some helpful information about working overseas.
ESL Teachers Board www.eslteachersboard.com
Most schools on their "School Review" board are Chinese, but there are a few Korean schools on the list.
Leon's Greylist www.efl.htmlplanet.com/greylist.htm
This page is for those looking to become expatriate English teachers in Korea, and/or for those expats already in-country experiencing labor-related problems. It primarily functions as a watch list of institutions to watch out for. Secondarily, this page contains copious amounts of advice on how to deal with many possible problems in the Republic of Korea.
Blacklisted www.blacklists2003.proboards13.com/
Information Sites about Teaching Conditions in Korea |
I notice that www.efl-law.org will be shutting down as of September 15th. That's a real pity. |
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jjmonkey
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
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| A hogwon blacklist would put some power back in teachers hands. |
I agree. But how can one tell what's whinging or BS and what isn't?
It's an open question to all and for which I do not have an answer. |
When it comes to the ESL market, Korea gets more bad press than all other places combined. I think that's clear to everyone. I'm sure plenty of the complaints are ridiculous..but they still have value. I've never felt so in need of other foreigners support as I do in Korea...and I've lived in a lot of places outside of my home country.
If it's bull**it, so be it..but atleast you thought twice...talked to a few more people and thought it through. Post what has happened to you and maybe a few people will hear.
We have to help each other.. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| A hogwon blacklist would put some power back in teachers hands. |
I agree. But how can one tell what's whinging or BS and what isn't?
It's an open question to all and for which I do not have an answer. |
Isn't that why teachers should:
1) check the blacklists,
2) CHECK with current/past teachers about said conditions
AND THEN
3) make an INFORMED decision? |
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guangho
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| A hogwon blacklist would put some power back in teachers hands. |
I agree. But how can one tell what's whinging or BS and what isn't?
It's an open question to all and for which I do not have an answer. |
I operate on the presumption that where there is smoke, there is bound to be a little thermal action as well. So in setting up a blacklist, you could have a requirement that no school will be listed unless three independently verified claims are made. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Try to not subscribe much to blacklist testimony. One blacklist was outed 3 years ago for sending emails to schools asking if they want to go on their whitelist or come off of the blacklist, for a fee.
That, plus the one-sided, potential embellishment factor from teachers, it's best to take blacklists with a big grain of salt and just contact the school you are researching and try to get contact info from current and past teachers. If the school does indeed have blacklist testimony out there, then ask the current and past teachers about that reported situation, regardless if it occurred during their tenure or not. Try to get a feel for what a live voice is saying about all this and give some credit to the ability of your gut instinct. |
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poof
Joined: 23 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I notice that www.efl-law.org will be shutting down as of September 15th. That's a real pity. |
I've just read their notice (kind of) explaining the reasons for their closure. I think it's a real pity, too. They provided good advice to so many teachers. It was often the nearest teachers got to a lawyer in Korea. It wasn't about blacklisting, but one of the only places a foreigner could go when they were in desperate need of help in sometimes terrible circumstances. Now, it seems the only recourse we have is through the labor board, but anyone who has gone through them knows that any claim often takes weeks to process. Essentially, EFL-law are admitting that foreigners will always be essentially legally powerless when they work here. Furthermore, lack of will power among many teachers will never see the creation of a teacher's union. In some ways, we've shot ourselves in the foot. Korea could sound like not much less than a nation of human rights abuse.
I agree that blacklists as such have limited use. They are only good if we could have a way to verify that what the poster was saying is 100% true. Therefore, the best way for any new teacher who is not able to see a school in person before signing a contract is to insist to speak to current teachers at the school. A new teacher should also be likewise weary about signing with a recruiter who they have no knowledge about. Only go through a recruiter if you can get direct recommendation through someone you know.
RIP EFL-law.
Perhaps it's time that Dave's got a legal forum on here. Even though most respondents might not be qualified lawyers, many will have had experience of the exact problems that new (and old) teachers will continue to experience again and again. I don't like to see personal grudge flaming, but good advice to those genuinely in need is a valuable service. |
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jjmonkey
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Why will they shut down their site?
see post;
http://efl-law.org/ |
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