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Veil of Veronica and the Shroud of Turin

 
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:20 am    Post subject: Veil of Veronica and the Shroud of Turin Reply with quote

Is it me or does the image of Jesus on the Veil of Veronica look jack all like the Jesus on the Shroud of Turin?

I mean, in the veil image, Jesus is sporting one of those little wispy Asian man beards. In the Shroud of Turin, he's got this full Ozarks Mountain Man beard. Did Jesus really grow such an impressive beard during his lil walkabout to Golgotha? I mean, I've done the stations of the cross and I don't even sport 5 o'clock shadow.

The only thing I can conclude is one of these is fake! A dirty, dirty fake!
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Grimalkin



Joined: 22 May 2005

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the Turin Shroud was proved to be a fake by carbon dating and no such person as Veronica appears in the new Testament so that story is probably false too.
When it comes to stories about religion I think large amounts of salt should be taken.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimalkin wrote:
Well the Turin Shroud was proved to be a fake by carbon dating and no such person as Veronica appears in the new Testament so that story is probably false too.
When it comes to stories about religion I think large amounts of salt should be taken.


What is weird is Veronica is mentioned in one of the books that didn't make it into the NT. And the pope is giving a nod to it? Weird weird.

There is a whole body of argumentation that the carbon dating was tainted. Various theories about the fire altered the carbon or there's some kind of patina on the shroud that mixed up the dating.

I just find it odd that the "mistaken" carbon dating just happens to date it to the same time that the shroud entered recorded history. What are the odds?

The church has locked it away and with a new pope losing bodies to blind fundamentalism, it's doubtful this new pope is ever going to bring reason to faith.
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tomato



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
What is weird is Veronica is mentioned in one of the books that didn't make it into the NT. And the pope is giving a nod to it? Weird weird.


Apparently, a person allegedly living in Biblical times doesn't have to make it into the Bible in order to earn the credence of the Catholic church.

There are non-Biblical scriptures which name Joachin and Anne as Mary's parents, and those two personages are now canonized.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomato wrote:
mindmetoo wrote:
What is weird is Veronica is mentioned in one of the books that didn't make it into the NT. And the pope is giving a nod to it? Weird weird.


Apparently, a person allegedly living in Biblical times doesn't have to make it into the Bible in order to earn the credence of the Catholic church.

There are non-Biblical scriptures which name Joachin and Anne as Mary's parents, and those two personages are now canonized.


Some would say that most saints have never even existed, that their lives are lies perpertuated by the Catholic church (to be polite, we say the saints are ahistorical). For example, Saint Brigid was created to spread catholicism in Ireland, where the cult of the celtic goddess Brigit was popular before christianity reached Ireland (blending local beliefs with christian ideas is still used today to convert people).


Last edited by Hollywoodaction on Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Boodleheimer



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Location: working undercover for the Man

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:

What is weird is Veronica is mentioned in one of the books that didn't make it into the NT. And the pope is giving a nod to it? Weird weird.


first off, the New Testament wasn't written until 300 years after Christ. it was all oral history until then.

second, Veronica isn't even the woman's real name if she DID exist. Veronica comes from "vera ikon", meaning true icon. it's like saying "The Veil of Really This Is An Icon"

third, the new pope is a retard.
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Boodleheimer



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Location: working undercover for the Man

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry if i sounded catty, but i had a migraine this morning and i feel like crap.

i think they're both royal fakes.
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Grimalkin



Joined: 22 May 2005

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KWhitehead wrote:
mindmetoo wrote:

What is weird is Veronica is mentioned in one of the books that didn't make it into the NT. And the pope is giving a nod to it? Weird weird.


first off, the New Testament wasn't written until 300 years after Christ. it was all oral history until then.

second, Veronica isn't even the woman's real name if she DID exist. Veronica comes from "vera ikon", meaning true icon. it's like saying "The Veil of Really This Is An Icon"

third, the new pope is a retard.


I'm pretty sure the first Gospels appeared in writing aboud 70 AD. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Actually it would be more like saying "the Veil of Reilly this is An Nica" since it seems to be an anagram. (actually I kinda have my doubts about this explanation of the name as the two parts vera and ikon come from two different languages Latin and Greek and even at that the letters need to be rearranged to form the name).

I think you're right about the new pope tho! Smile

P.S. hope you're feeling better.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the Shroud of Turin, there seems to be enough evidence to indicate that it may be authentic.

...Arguments and evidence cited against a miraculous origin of the shroud images include a letter from a medieval bishop to the Avignon pope claiming personal knowledge that the image was cleverly painted to gain money from pilgrims; radiocarbon tests in 1988 that yielded a medieval timeframe for the cloth's fabrication; and analysis of the image by microscopist Walter McCrone, who concluded ordinary pigments were used.

Arguments and evidence cited for the shroud's being something other than a medieval forgery include textile and material analysis pointing to a 1st-century origin; the unusual properties of the image itself which some claim could not have been produced by any image forming technique known before the 19th century; objective indications that the 1988 radiocarbon dating was invalid due to improper testing technique; a 2005 study proving that the sample used in the 1988 radiocarbon dating came from a medieval patch and not the original Shroud; and repeated peer-reviewed analyses of the image mode which contradict McCrone's assertions. Also, pollen from many places the shroud was said to have gone through are found, such as pollen from plants that exist only in certain areas near Jerusalem.

Both skeptics and proponents tend to have entrenched positions on the cause of formation of the shroud image, which has made dialogue very difficult. This may prevent the issue from ever being fully settled to the satisfaction of all sides...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimalkin wrote:
KWhitehead wrote:
mindmetoo wrote:

What is weird is Veronica is mentioned in one of the books that didn't make it into the NT. And the pope is giving a nod to it? Weird weird.


first off, the New Testament wasn't written until 300 years after Christ. it was all oral history until then.

second, Veronica isn't even the woman's real name if she DID exist. Veronica comes from "vera ikon", meaning true icon. it's like saying "The Veil of Really This Is An Icon"

third, the new pope is a retard.


I'm pretty sure the first Gospels appeared in writing aboud 70 AD. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Actually it would be more like saying "the Veil of Reilly this is An Nica" since it seems to be an anagram. (actually I kinda have my doubts about this explanation of the name as the two parts vera and ikon come from two different languages Latin and Greek and even at that the letters need to be rearranged to form the name).

I think you're right about the new pope tho! Smile

P.S. hope you're feeling better.


The Gospel of Mark is commonly acknowledged to have been the first Gospel.

It's been estimated to have been written anywhere from 50 to 150 CE (Common Era), with the commonest range being from 65 to 75 CE. This is due to various events described, especially its description of the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem, which took place during the Jewish War of 66 to 70 CE.
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