Korean Job Discussion Forums

[lastat06513]

Ok, with all these people talking about moving on from the hogwons to the public school sector, hasn't it occurred to anyone that while there will be a teacher shortage for the hogwons, that they might actually start filling their positions with illegal teachers?

I mean, unlike public schools, hogwons are for-profit businesses that would do just about anything to stay in business and make a profit. They already do some unscrupulous things, such as tax evasion and breaking labor laws, what is to stop them from hiring illegal teachers to fill the void of those making the exodus to the public school system?

The government can only do and has done so much except shut them down and I hardly think that will happen, too many strong interests involved to shut the hogwons down.

So if what I said is correct, this will not decrease the number of illegal teachers coming to Korea, it might only make the schools desperate to hire more illegal teachers, thus you might actually see an influx of "tourists" in the country......

[dulouz]

Ok that might happen. So what?

[corroonb]

It sounds like an excellent opportunity to demand higher salaries for hogwon jobs.

[lastat06513]

So what?

So all that jive about illegal teachers in the media and all these regulations that are in place or will be in place will mean nothing if the directors of these schools can circumvent them.

And think about the whole picture......

Imagine you are a Korean parent and you have a school-aged child in the public school system. Yes, they are learning from a teacher in school, but they only see him/ her for only forty-five minutes a day (in some remote places, they can only have one-on-one English study with a teacher at least once or twice a week) which is not enough time to really learn anything. Another problem that might occur is stagnation because a foreign teacher might become as entrenched as their Korean counterparts to the point that they might not care about teaching...only having a job outside the hogwon system....
Now what does this might mean....off to the Hogwon again for more indepth study so my child could still have a chance at entering one of the big universities in Seoul (remember, the goal of the Korean parents won't change and the requirement of their students to have proffficient knoweldge of English won't change either).

Now at the hogwon, the director is having a hard time filling his vacancy for an English teacher. But a backpacker just got in and needs some extra cash before heading off to Thailand. Out of desperation, the school hires him/her, but with no insurance or pension benefits and at a lower wage than what a full-time teacher gets (yes, driving the wage down). And the director fudges the credentials of the teacher to entice parents to send their child there.

Now, this is how I can see it might affect public school teachers.
With the rise in enrollment in hogwons (again), the schools will have to try to improve their teachers ability to teach, thus scheduling more and more training meetings for the development of their teachers. Maybe monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly or semi-annual in intervals...

Don't get me wrong, it is a great idea to have teacher development- but I might think it would be on days when there is no classes and possibly on the weekend. (view the thread about the teacher who even has to attend a hogwon teachers meeting on his day off)- which might cut into your personal time.

The only thing I can see the government doing to counter this is to shut down each and every language institute in Korea, which will face opposition on many fronts- the hogwon association, the teachers association, various publishing companies that survive on selliing their material to the hogwons and parents who want their little ones to get a chance to go to one of the big universities in Korea

And if they do shut them down, it would mean that alot more would be expected of the teachers and I know alot of teachers might feel burdened by any extra responsibility.

It all becomes a vicious cycle of things.....

[some waygug-in]

They were already doing that, that's what the big "crackdown" last year was about.

Now the "teacher shortage". It shows how common the illegal teacher situation was.

What they really need to do is change the visa system so that the schools don't "own" you for a year. Make it so teachers are free to leave when they wish, then a lot of these places would have to treat teachers better or find ways to survive without a foreign teacher.

[Hater Depot]

Or if parents actually acted like they gave a crap about teachers being qualified instead of white. Neither do they really seem to put much stock in the idea that it might be better to stick with one teacher for more than 3 months at a time.

[some waygug-in]

I think the parents would figure things out if the teachers were given more freedom on their visas.

I'm sure Japanese parents are just as fickle as their Korean counterparts, but overall teachers seem to be a lot happier over there.

I'm not saying there aren't problems.......there will always be problems, but the Japanese visa system is a vast improvement over the system here.

The whole qualified vs unqualified debate is not really the issue.

The issue is why so many schools can't get qualified people to work for them? The answer is that they treat teachers so badly that no one with any real qualifications would put up with such BS. (at least not for long)

And yes, I count myself as only 'semi-qualified', having only a BA and a TESOL ... but I do have 5 years of experience.

[Boodleheimer]

maybe they'll change the labor laws. i mean, it's freaking nuts to have to show your diploma AND your transcript. my diploma is huge, too.

[lastat06513]

I know the whole crackdown was because of the illegal phenomenon and because some people shot off their big mouths about some of the stuff they get away with being in Korea (but then again, there are alot of qualified teachers doing the exact same things)

But like any crackdown in Korea, this one will blow over, maybe not to the extent of saying things will go back to the way they were before the ES scandal, but they will calm down somewhat.

The school sponsorship of the visa is mostly due to the fact that they don't want people running around the country and breaking contracts at whim. Their rationale is that if you are assigned to a place to work, that is supposed to be your sole responsibility. Unfortunately, you get alot of owners and directors who misinterpret that and use it as a premise to screw with their foreign staff.
While those on tourist visas (and I'm sorry to single out Canadians on this, they are the ones who get a 6-month entry stamp at the immigration desk at the airport) and those with F-visas can go and choose where they want to work and if things don't work out for them, they can just get up and leave (anyone who has been in Korea for a long period of time and working on a tourist visa [ and I know a few who did and are still doing it] know how not to get screwed around).
The problem is that the newbies and those "virtuous" people tend to think of Korea and Koreans in a positive way and try to be as accomodating as possible.
The problem is that Koreans tend to take that as a sign of weakness and will try to walk all over them at every opportunity they get.

I feel that yeah, it is better to open the "educational floodgates" and let the parents and the schools decide who is the best teacher and immigration should try to stop its micromanagement of the whole thing. Because not only are they doing a good job at intimidating illegals from working in Korea, but they are also frightening away and turning away alot of qualified people as well.

Something to think about....

[gang ah jee]

[PRagic]

As long as institutes continue to pay wages competitive with Japan, there will continue to be a steady stream of unsuspecting grads with loans to pay streaming in. Compound this with a trickle of the people with degrees running away from reality or personal problems, and hakwons should have no worries keeping well staffed.