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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: Patrick J. Buchanan: Defender of the Faith |
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Only a President like Dubya could make me agree with a person such as Patrick Buchanan. PB and I see eye-to-eye on a lot of foreign policy issues these days. I especially liked his most recent column:
Islamo-facism?
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What is wrong with the term Islamo-fascism?
First, there is no consensus as to what �fascism� even means. Orwell said when someone calls Smith a fascist, what he means is �I hate Smith. � By calling Smith a fascist, you force Smith to deny he�s a sympathizer of Hitler and Mussolini. |
And the reason I called Buchanan "defender of the faith":
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�Islamo-fascism� should be jettisoned from Bush�s vocabulary. It yokes the faith of a billion people with an odious ideology. Imagine how Christians would have reacted, had FDR taken to declaring Franco�s Spain and Mussolini�s Italy �Christo-fascist.�
If Bush does not want a war of civilizations, he will drop these propaganda terms that are designed to inflame passions rather than inform the public of the nature of the war we are in, and the war we are not in. |
Now I know, there are many, many differences between those European fascists and Islamic fundamentalists. That argument is rather weak if you ask me. Both Franco and Mussolini did not embrace Christianity at all, while Islam is all what Al-Qaeda and co. are about.
That being said, I think the article does a good job at pointing out the differences between different groups in the Middle East, and the silliness in grouping them all together. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Is Bush really grouping all Muslims into the group of Islamofascists?
Islamofascists (also known as Islamists) have their Christian counterparts, known as Christianists. Both Christianists and Islamofascists/Islamists seek to extol their faith, and their version of their faith, on a political level, usually by advocating totalitarian regimes based on their faith, and often doing so with a zeal that uses extreme methods.
Islamofascist is a wonderful way to group together Al Qaeda and Iran, because it elicits a commonality in their essential goals that Muslim extremist does not. If anything, Al Qaeda is more Islamofascist than Iran due to Zawahiri's direct connections and training with the Islamic Brotherhood, which was in turn trained by the Nazis. The regime of Iran would be a softer Islamofascist incarnation, although they beg for the label when they talk about wiping out Israel and execute teenagers for gay sex.
Bush's Manichean worldview and rhetoric is another problem, but identifying Islamofascism as a problem we face (Islamist, political authoritarian Islam, etc) is correct. |
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otis

Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| I guess the big difference is that the Christians aren't blowing you up at the airport. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Islamofascist is a wonderful way to group together Al Qaeda and Iran, because it elicits a commonality in their essential goals that Muslim extremist does not. |
But in order for the comparison to live up to the WW2 evocations(and let's be honest, that's what Bush wants us to think about), Al Qaeda and Iran would have to be allied with one another, in the way that Germany and Italy were. And I'm sorry, but I just don't see any evidence for that at all. I mean, Al Qaeda and Iraq is enough of a stretch, the connections there are sketchy and of slight significance at best, but Al Qaeda and IRAN?? Why the hell would Iran be supporting a group which has as one of its hobbies the mass slaughter of Iranian pilgrims in Iraq? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| Islamofascist is a wonderful way to group together Al Qaeda and Iran, because it elicits a commonality in their essential goals that Muslim extremist does not. |
But in order for the comparison to live up to the WW2 evocations(and let's be honest, that's what Bush wants us to think about), Al Qaeda and Iran would have to be allied with one another, in the way that Germany and Italy were. And I'm sorry, but I just don't see any evidence for that at all. I mean, Al Qaeda and Iraq is enough of a stretch, the connections there are sketchy and of slight significance at best, but Al Qaeda and IRAN?? Why the hell would Iran be supporting a group which has as one of its hobbies the mass slaughter of Iranian pilgrims in Iraq? |
Right, the false Manichean assumptions need to be addressed. But frankly, Al Qaeda and Iran are both rival Islamofascist organizations. I don't defend the WWII evocations, since we haven't issued any warbonds nor have we issued gas rations. |
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DCJames

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| otis wrote: |
| I guess the big difference is that the Christians aren't blowing you up at the airport. |
yeah, Christians just go on crusades and inquisitions... |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Location: Goseong
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I have read one of Buchanan's books, I think it was called, "Where the Right Went Wrong"
It's a good read and talks quite abit about the Republican party has been hijacked by the neocons. I highly recommend it even to someone who is liberal.
Yes, some of the things Buchanan says are pretty looney, but he makes some good points too. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Next to a River
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Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: Did I miss something? |
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| yeah, Christians just go on crusades and inquisitions... |
I am sorry, they missed me on the weekly news letter. You mean thats all they do? Why wasn't I invited on the last one? Damm! a good inquisition and all the christians I know missed it.
I hope you are being sarcastic, though knowing some of my lecturers at Uni, you might be serious. Some of my Uni Professors and students seemed to believe everything they read in a book.
Maybe thats why I argue the same way  |
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