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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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 Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| A million dollars? Hell, I'll be an illegal immigrant to the States for a while if it pays that much. |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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These people are pathetic  What about taking the $$$ and going back where they belong?!? This is just another reason I stress the word INVASION. They have a fortune and still won't leave!! |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Wasn't American founded on illegal immigration?  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Wasn't American founded on illegal immigration? |
Try open immigration. Big difference. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Open immigration, huh? That's a new one - I'll just do a quick Google ... |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Well, what about this?
http://www.openimmigration.com/ - Anti-immigration is anti-American.
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Restrictions on 'H-1B' Visas Punish Ability and Trample the Rights of Employer and Employee
by Robert W. Tracinski
The irrational premise behind our nation's immigration laws is that a native-born American has a 'right' to a particular job, not because he has earned it, but because he was born here. |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Wasn't American founded on illegal immigration? |
I dont think the Iroqois or the Apache nations had visa requirements for Europeans. |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
Well, what about this?
http://www.openimmigration.com/ - Anti-immigration is anti-American.
| Quote: |
Restrictions on 'H-1B' Visas Punish Ability and Trample the Rights of Employer and Employee
by Robert W. Tracinski
The irrational premise behind our nation's immigration laws is that a native-born American has a 'right' to a particular job, not because he has earned it, but because he was born here. |
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Yeah what about it? The writer of that piece has a humble and incorrect opinion about foreign workers in the US. Yes domestic workers should have first crack at jobs. Why have nations?
Second, all of my buddies in tech in America say that the "shortage" of american tech workers is not true. Companies just want to pay Indians less. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Wasn't American founded on illegal immigration? ...Anti-immigration is anti-American. |
You present an ahistorical and thus deeply flawed worldview. That is, you assume that whatever it was the America was founded on, remains a timeless, unchanging principle. But peoples, cultures, and nation-states change over time; they are constantly in flux, and on multiple levels, which do not always correspond. And what may or may not have been true in earlier centuries, is not necessarily true in subsequent centuries or the present day.
I think you probably know that, however.
In any case, my answer to your question: "No, America was not founded on illegal immigration; its foundation was far more complex than what you assert here." |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| Second, all of my buddies in tech in America say that the "shortage" of american tech workers is not true. Companies just want to pay Indians less. |
and half of those tech companies are Indian-owned living in the US anyways.. so they bring it back over to Bangalore to send the $ going that direction (while they save a bundle of course).
While I was living in San Francisco Bay Area in 2001-2002.. definetely had TONS of american tech workers.. most were scrambling to get jobs that were about two steps below whatever they were doing prior to the dot.com crash.
Anything 'web designer' or web anything was either internships or $9/hour (which is fairly close to the Bay Area minimum wage - I think fast food clerks start range from $9-12 in the Bay Area). In short, so many people wanted anything website related on their resumes and willing to get paid much less money than fast food clerks to get it. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: |
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You are all exposing the great "lie" of conservative thought......(which is by default anti-immigrant and insular, atleast its modern emanation).
The lie is, that the economy is better without immigrants. It is a lie not because it isn't true or false. ........ could be the case either way, depending on so many factors. This is a lie because it goes against the free trade, let the markets decide ethos of the conservative agenda....
How these people and Dulouz the OP in particular, can be so two faced amazes me. Big contradiction and to not see it is to still think that because the sun sets, it goes out at night.....the greatest stupidity is to rationalize one's own....
DD |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Not enough workers to harvest Florida oranges
Lakeland, Florida (AP) � The Sunshine State has plenty of oranges on its trees. Trouble is there aren't enough people to pick them.
Florida citrus industry officials warn between three and six million boxes of oranges may not be harvested this year, as a result. If the worst case scenario proves true, it'll be the state's lowest orange production since 1992.
Officials blame talk of immigration crackdowns for their difficulty in finding Hispanic workers, who comprise much of Florida's farm work force. One grower says word spread through the Hispanic community that people had to return home if they wanted future jobs in the US.
http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=34975 |
As some of you may know, I am back in the States (the state of Florida, to be specific) and helping a friend out with his business. All of this immigration debate is interesting from a far remove, but here in the Sunshine State, with an unemployment rate around 3%, the lack of workers is a real problem. We need to hire someone, for a reasonably livable wage (north of $10 an hour), but it is really difficult. There is a large Haitian immigrant population, American born Black, and huge Hispanic community. Those who want to work are working, and those who aren't working, you wouldn't want to employ.
We are at the leading edge of the coming demographic problem- lots of old people and not so many young workers to handle the labor required to support the elderly and the children.
I think that if we have FTAs with other countries which allow capital (and jobs and businesses) to flow freely over borders, why not people? The U.S. Constitution treats corporations as "people" with rights. Now we need to generalize backwards and give people the rights corporations have.
Global village? Not for people, yet. It is more like a cluster of gated communities with guards to keep out the unwanted. But even the elites need workers and gardeners- this will be an interesting problem to watch being resolved. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Yo!Chingo wrote: |
| These people are pathetic What about taking the $$$ and going back where they belong?!? This is just another reason I stress the word INVASION. They have a fortune and still won't leave!! |
They sure are pathetic...leaving their homes to try for a better life, only to have their partners killed, enduring lives of isolation as persona non grata just for the chance their children can have a future, weighing up returning home with seperation from their kids. Pathetic... in that most people would feel pity for them.
Not you though Chingo!! You know the score, huh? You know that these three families are the THIN END OF THE WEDGE my friend!! It's nachos and bean dip for every white kid in America if these INVADING INVADERS get their way.
I salute you. It takes an exceptional mind to read that article and come to the conclusions you did. You're a special, special person. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Wasn't American founded on illegal immigration? |
Except for the natives, you're all squatters. |
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