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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: Clash of Civilizations or middle ages vs the 21st century |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-trMOYNhlo
There is No Clash of Civilizations but a Clash between the Mentality of the Middle Ages and That of the 21st Century |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Clash of Civilizations or middle ages vs the 21st centur |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-trMOYNhlo
There is No Clash of Civilizations but a Clash between the Mentality of the Middle Ages and That of the 21st Century |
YEs, but luckily we are finally throwing off the yoke of Christianity. 
Joke aside, the sooner Middle East style Islam is phased out, whether through education or it actually changing, the better the Earth will be. |
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yoda
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: Incheon, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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That was fantastic. I love that woman.
My favorite part:
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Are you a heretic?
If you are a heretic then there is no point in rebuking you. |
Added: What a courageous speech! Probably she'll get a fatwha thrown on her for that. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Fascinating video; thanks for posting it.
Courageous woman. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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"So I have to tell my people and break this taboo...."
As she says it, she should be commended for it. She is right to put the message on human rights and away from the concept of "clash" and West vs Islam.
Also another example that there is debate and discussion and change in the Muslim world and there are voices of dissent and a press that does get the message out . Contrary to many voices who paint the Islamic world with one black brush..........
Much like our own society, the changes we went through and still need to go through (given our military fixation, foreign escapades etc....) Islamic society like all culture must cleanse itself of extremism and concentrate on the rights of individuals....
In my opinion, whatever she so rightly, in no way makes Western society better or "above". You can't judge culture in a hierarchy. In no way does it make it right for us to beat the war drum in return........I think secularism will win if it sticks to its ideas of truth, the individual, the differences of life, tolerance and the freedom to be which that entails...
As she many times says in her interviews...she is optimistic. Not surprised that she is a medical doctor trained towards reverence for life, the sanctity of life.....
Stimulating speaker....
DD |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| says she was shocked into secularism |
The sooner we get everyone to this side of the fence, the better. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
"So I have to tell my people and break this taboo...."
Also another example that there is debate and discussion and change in the Muslim world and there are voices of dissent and a press that does get the message out . Contrary to many voices who paint the Islamic world with one black brush..........
DD |
earth to ddeubel,
read the wiki bio and you will realize that she does not consider herself a muslim, nor is she a citizen of a majority Islamic nation.
She has denounced Islam and is an American citizen.
She has rejected the Islamic world both geographically and religiously, so it's a bit of a stretch to use her to paint such a rosy picture of free and open discussion of issues in the "Islamic world". |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Contrary to many voices who paint the Islamic world with one black brush.......... |
I have to agree. The west needs to stand up to the bullies, but it also needs to foster and encourage dialogue and change when it does happen in Muslim communities-- even if this woman isn't specifically part of one anymore. This sort of dialogue wasn't possible in Christian Europe in 1400 either, but Europe changed, and Islam can change its practices while retaining its tenets as well. Islam nations at one distant time were famed for their intellectual and academic traditions, particularly in mathematics and sciences.
How are we defining secularism? If we simply mean a philosophy of separation of church and state and not simply atheism, I think it would be a welcome development.
Ken:> |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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earth to ddeubel,
read the wiki bio and you will realize that she does not consider herself a muslim, nor is she a citizen of a majority Islamic nation.
She has denounced Islam and is an American citizen.
She has rejected the Islamic world both geographically and religiously, so it's a bit of a stretch to use her to paint such a rosy picture of free and open discussion of issues in the "Islamic world". |
_________________
She says "my people", she appears in the Arabic / Islamic media. Like it or not, she is born and of that culture - whether you refer to it as I did "Islamic" (meaning a culture where the prevalent norms are Muslim , as oppossed to our western Judeo-Christian world). Yes, she rejects being a "Muslim" but I think it quite a stretch for you to say she rejects "the Islamic world" -- she continually refers to "her people" Syrian or otherwise...
I don't want to paint a rosy picture of press freedom ANYWHERE (except maybe Iceland). First for true freedom of the press, you need a literate population - far from the case in almost any place in the world - where the media is cold and the message.....to paraphrase McCluhan. Disastrous state west and east of the media, mostly not in content but in access.........either by will or by infrastructure or statute...........
Now you will condemn me for comparing western media freedom with "some" countries in the Islamic world.....go ahead. My point is only that at all times, all places, the media has a very hard time getting out any vibrant, meaningful message. Most of it is pap and tripe....
DD |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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You are just looking for any way to 'prove' that there is even the smallest debate in muslim nations about if or if not secularism.
Muslims see her as a non-muslim. Her words have fully ZERO impact on the bearded PJ wearing types.
Get with it dd, Islam is a threat to our way of life. That doesn't mean that we "beat the war drums" or whatever, but it does mean that we seperate them from us. We have too many weak people like you to survive a large cultural clash with them.
Islam is a violent deathcult. Gays and woman are treated like farm animals. What part of this don't you get?
We are finally, after hundreds and hundreds of years, throwing Christianity away. And Europe fills her nations with islam. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!!
dude, give me a break. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!!
dude, give me a break. |
Impressive comment, but for everyone's sake, you really should say who you're responding to. I know that, to you it must seem obvious, but look at which board you're on -- Dave's CE Forum.   |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!!
dude, give me a break. |
That was so funny! |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
How are we defining secularism? If we simply mean a philosophy of separation of church and state and not simply atheism, I think it would be a welcome development.
Ken:> |
Someones else who missed the 18th Century. Dang. |
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