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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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 Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:44 am Post subject: Shyte-hot public school jobs? |
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Something I've noticed is that there seems to be this perception that working in public schools is somehow better than working in a hagwon. I've done both, and overall, I found the hagwon experiences vastly superior to the public school gig. Here's why:
public school classes of 40 with all different levels crammed in together.
horribly behaved children in public school.
being in an environment with all koreans. hagwons you have english co-workers.
having to get up for morning classes.
working saturday mornings.
having to work with Korean English co-teachers who's english was for the most part much worse than than the Korean English teachers in hagwons I've worked in.
I realize holidays are better in public schools, and pay may be better in some cases, but I think working in a quality hagwon is a far better experience generally than the public school gig. Unless you live for holidays, or are a private junkie and want nights off to do them. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Shyte-hot public school jobs? |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
1)public school classes of 40 with all different levels crammed in together.
2)horribly behaved children in public school.
3)being in an environment with all koreans. hagwons you have english co-workers.
4)having to get up for morning classes.
5)working saturday mornings.
6)having to work with Korean English co-teachers who's english was for the most part much worse than than the Korean English teachers in hagwons I've worked in.
7)I realize holidays are better in public schools, and pay may be better in some cases, but I think working in a quality hagwon is a far better experience generally than the public school gig. Unless you live for holidays, or are a private junkie and want nights off to do them. |
At first I thought you would have good reasons, but those are just not right or depends on the person. Most of your answers are subjective. You should proabably say these are all the reasons in your opinion and with your lifestyle. The public school far suits my lifestyle more than a hagwon (I've done university, public schoo and eikaiwa, which is a Japanese hagwon).
1) Not always, it varies. But this sucks for new teachers. I'd also like to point out most hagwon (except for a few awesome ones) don't give a damn as long as they are paying, and if mommy thinks they should be in a higher level, screw your recommendations.
2) I don't mean this in a bad way, but your discipline and control are probably what are lacking. Especially if you have a Korean teacher, though I don't and have no problems.
3) You'd be surprised some people like that. I came to Korea to meet Koreans and learn Korean. I know most don't, and many don't want to partake in the culture at all (and not just Korea), but some do.
4) You'd be surprised how many people don't like to drink all night, or stay up until 3am with crap on TV  I have always been a morning person, and many are.
5) What? I highly doubt many people do this without getting overtime, and even then I don't anyone who does.
6) I agree
7) Working in a quality hagwon is easier and usually more rewarding. Finding one is difficult, and no matter how good it is, it will never look as good as a public school on your resume.
Last edited by laogaiguk on Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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I_Am_Wrong
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: whatever
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:58 am Post subject: |
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There is good an bad in everything, everywhere. Good hagwons, shit hagwons, good schools, shit schools. Why do people always think that their experience sums up the whole?
what?
1) students who bow to me and tell me how much they love me
2) co-teachers who are professional and speak fantastic english
3) teaching experience that is recognized by school boards in Canada and can be used towards seniority in Canada
4) never working Saturdays
5) respect in Korean society |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| All of your points are valid, I'm not arguing that their are some benefits to public schools. I just don't see why English Teachers in general would think working in a public school is better. I also don't see why it is important how Koreans view you, in terms of your job. That is like number 89 on my list of reasons to take a job. As for discipline, I found that the Korean teachers, not me, set the tone for the classes. As I was not willing to use the Draconian methods of discipline, ie. hitting, acting like a prison guard, then I found the classes that were bad were horrible. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I just say it's much more practical and doable in my experience to do it in a class of 10-15 than a class of 35-40. I taught middle school by the way, in Korea. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| I should add that I've never felt more disrespected by Koreans than in the public school setting. The Korean men were very arrogant, and would ask loaded questions, or just seemed put off by my being there. In a hagwon, I don't have to have co-workers who acted like concepted di cks. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| I should add that I've never felt more disrespected by Koreans than in the public school setting. The Korean men were very arrogant, and would ask loaded questions, or just seemed put off by my being there. In a hagwon, I don't have to have co-workers who acted like concepted di cks. |
This does happen, but not enough that it should be a detriment to thinking about public schools. I still think it looks better on my resume for my future plans. For someone going back home to work in a stock brokerage, it wouldn't matter in the least. And I agree with smaller classes being easier, anyone who doesn't isn't too bright But there are ways besides Draconian beatings to control a class of 30-40. I am able to, but it took a lot of trial and error before. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| I should add that I've never felt more disrespected by Koreans than in the public school setting. The Korean men were very arrogant, and would ask loaded questions, or just seemed put off by my being there. In a hagwon, I don't have to have co-workers who acted like concepted di cks. |
This does happen, but not enough that it should be a detriment to thinking about public schools. I still think it looks better on my resume for my future plans. For someone going back home to work in a stock brokerage, it wouldn't matter in the least. And I agree with smaller classes being easier, anyone who doesn't isn't too bright But there are ways besides Draconian beatings to control a class of 30-40. I am able to, but it took a lot of trial and error before. |
I just got tired of going into one perfect class, where by the way, I taught 80-90% of the lesson, then going into another class with a different teacher and there would be the 5 or 6 kids who didn't know what the heck was going on and disrupted my concentration, and then going into another class with UNBELIEVABLE control issues, where the teacher would act like their best friend, then who intermitently whip them on the hand or back with his little bamboo rod. Talk about passive-aggressive. Now, that was year two in Korea, and I've learned a thing or two since then, and know it would be a different story now. BUT, I'm just saying, all things being relatively equal, I think a good hagwon gig beats dealing with Korean overlings and 40 kids. Exceptionally good public school situations excepted. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
I just got tired of going into one perfect class, where by the way, I taught 80-90% of the lesson, then going into another class with a different teacher and there would be the 5 or 6 kids who didn't know what the heck was going on and disrupted my concentration, and then going into another class with UNBELIEVABLE control issues, where the teacher would act like their best friend, then who intermitently whip them on the hand or back with his little bamboo rod. Talk about passive-aggressive. Now, that was year two in Korea, and I've learned a thing or two since then, and know it would be a different story now. BUT, I'm just saying, all things being relatively equal, I think a good hagwon gig beats dealing with Korean overlings and 40 kids. Exceptionally good public school situations excepted. |
I agree (especially an adult hagwon which comes with extra benefits of its students) except for the resume thing. If someone makes this a career (or even does it for atleast 4 years), a public school looks better |
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Corporal
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| I'm with you, OP. I've done both, but early mornings and big classes are not at all appealing to me. I'll always choose going to work leisurely in the afternoon and teaching no more than 8 students per class. |
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bnrockin
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| I_Am_Wrong wrote: |
| There is good an bad in everything, everywhere. Good hagwons, *beep* hagwons, good schools, *beep* schools. Why do people always think that their experience sums up the whole? |
Yeah you're right on that one. I do have to say that I have heard more bad things on the forums about hagwons than public schools. From what I know about the two (not so much) I would say that it seems that people trust the public schools more because they don't have to worry about shady buisness practices or the school shutting down or something though I could and probably am wrong.
As far as your arrival in Korea experiance is concerned and the school's helping you with your needed things, would you say that Hagwons or public schools are better about helping you when you arrive? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| bnrockin wrote: |
| As far as your arrival in Korea experiance is concerned and the school's helping you with your needed things, would you say that Hagwons or public schools are better about helping you when you arrive? |
That is entirely dependant on your director (hakwon) and your co-teacher/principal (public school). Each and everyone is different.
In this regard there is NO better or worse by type (hakwon / public school)
they are all mixed and all over the map. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| The one advantage of public schools besides the resume is that they pretty much have to pay you for the year unless you mess up. It would not look good if a Korean public school did not pay its foreign teachers and I am sure word would get around quickly. |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Public school = 40 hour work week for 2 mil (average). Breaking that down we find that public school teachers make W12500 per hour.
Hogwon = 30 hour work week for 2 mil (average). Break that down and we find that hogwon teachers make W16500 per hour.
Salaries, bonuses, airfare, vacations and housing being equal, hogwons clearly have the upper hand; however, if you happen to be one of the lucky few public school teachers who manage to finagle the full time off for vacations, then your situation would be preferable. I say "finagle" because public school teachers are legally bound by their contracts to work the specified hours, and no one working for GEPIK, EPIK or SMOE has a contract which allows them the full time off for summer and winter vacations. If you take that time off, you are cheating the government. And no, I really don't give a sh*t, but that's the thick and thin of it.
Game. Set. Match. |
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saybanana
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: LA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
Public school = 40 hour work week for 2 mil (average). Breaking that down we find that public school teachers make W12500 per hour.
Hogwon = 30 hour work week for 2 mil (average). Break that down and we find that hogwon teachers make W16500 per hour.
Salaries, bonuses, airfare, vacations and housing being equal, hogwons clearly have the upper hand; however, if you happen to be one of the lucky few public school teachers who manage to finagle the full time off for vacations, then your situation would be preferable. I say "finagle" because public school teachers are legally bound by their contracts to work the specified hours, and no one working for GEPIK, EPIK or SMOE has a contract which allows them the full time off for summer and winter vacations. If you take that time off, you are cheating the government. And no, I really don't give a sh*t, but that's the thick and thin of it.
Game. Set. Match. |
Hagwans teachers do 30 teaching hours. most public school teachers only work 22 teaching hours. The other 18 hours are non-teaching. that includes 5 hours of paid lunch time. 13 hours to prep for classes (which ususally includes lots of coffee breaks, surfing the net for "educational" purposes, right, making materials for the classes) and the occasional weekly staff meeting) All that paid. And for the first poster. Most public school teachers never work saturdays. I know one who does, but I think he has a deal where he exchanges those hours for longer summer and winter vacations.
The only thing I dont like about public schools is that students are so diverse in ability. some are low near zero even with years of public school education, others are high with years of hagwan classes on top of that. I find these two groups seem the most bored in class. Either they think its too hard and they dont care, or its way to easy and they dont care. The ones in the middle I seem to like the most. I teach elementaty school. |
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bnrockin
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| A trend I see is in both hagwons and public schools is people saying you have to be "lucky" to find a good job in each field. |
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