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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: Why are there not 500,000 American soldiers in Iraq? |
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Caught a bit of Stewart today on my pc and he raised an interesting point that I dont think has been discussed here yet ( sorry if it has ).
If this is truly a "war for civilization itself" as Bush has put it. If this war is so important to the safety of America why HAS'NT Bush fully mobilized the country for war?
I'm a pretty middle of the road kinda guy politically. Radical Islam surely needs to be opposed. Is it knocking on our doors about to force my sister and mother behind a burqa, absolute rubbish.
So for all of you who harp on and on about the threat of Islam to the west why do you suppourt Bush? If this is a war for civilization why are YOU teaching in Korea instead of in Iraq or Afghanistan? Answer that for me please. |
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Boodleheimer
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Location: working undercover for the Man
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| because you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had. now go watch some FoxNews. it'll make the pain go away. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Why are there not 500,000 American soldiers in Iraq? |
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| yawarakaijin wrote: |
Caught a bit of Stewart today on my pc and he raised an interesting point that I dont think has been discussed here yet ( sorry if it has ).
If this is truly a "war for civilization itself" as Bush has put it. If this war is so important to the safety of America why HAS'NT Bush fully mobilized the country for war?
I'm a pretty middle of the road kinda guy politically. Radical Islam surely needs to be opposed. Is it knocking on our doors about to force my sister and mother behind a burqa, absolute rubbish.
So for all of you who harp on and on about the threat of Islam to the west why do you suppourt Bush? If this is a war for civilization why are YOU teaching in Korea instead of in Iraq or Afghanistan? Answer that for me please. |
In part my answer is that you present a false choice -- I don't support Bush in most things, and even in those policies I do support I think he's badly mishandled them, but I do also think vast swaths of Islam are a serious threat to the West.
I had ambivalence about the war in Iraq when it was being sold to us -- not at all sure about the link to Bin Laden, but very sure Hussein was a candidate for regime change, as the quaint phrase has it. The war in Iraq may be unwinnable at this point, but that is due directly to a bungled execution of it, including the pathetically small force we have there.
Boy did I seethe when Rumsfeld answered with the pithy answer that KWhitehead quoted -- you go to war with the force you have, not the one you wish you had. That's only a true statement if it's a fight you're not picking. If you're picking a fight and you don't have forces equal to the task, you get some more or you wait until you can. If Bush had been more of a diplomat and less a B*tch-boy to the neocons, some of those forces could have come from a rather more broadbased coalition. If he hadn't squandered the unbelievable post-9/11 goodwill of the world through his bullying and bombast, he'd have stood a chance of making a case to the world about the need to go to Iraq, and he wouldn't have had to use the intel he wished he had to do it.
The main reason, though, that more US forces are not in Iraq is that it would be a tough sell domestically. Support for the war (as for his presidency) has never been high -- it would be lower if more American families were directly affected by it. Ironically, a larger force would probably go a long way toward reducing US casualties, which, aside from fewer dead soldiers would also translate into higher domestic support for the war.
Bush is the wrong man to lead this struggle. We need a Roosevelt (FD) or a Lincoln, not a Jackson or a McKinley. But the struggle will outlast him. The US has elections in two years that will almost surely see a Democrat in power. I just pray for someone more like Bill Clinton than Al Gore or John Kerry. (All right, I'd also settle for John McCain, even if he doesn't switch parties.)
As to why I'm not Afghanistan or Iraq, I served my time in the military. I'm an English teacher now. If you can think of an effective battle plan that could employ English teachers to win the struggle, let me know and I'll get back to you. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Why are there not 500,000 American soldiers in Iraq? |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| Boy did I seethe when Rumsfeld answered with the pithy answer that KWhitehead quoted -- you go to war with the force you have, not the one you wish you had. |
Especially when he had dozens of "real" military professionals telling him that the force he recommended couldn't do the job.
| daskalos wrote: |
| Bush is the wrong man to lead this struggle. We need a Roosevelt (FD) or a Lincoln, not a Jackson or a McKinley. But the struggle will outlast him. The US has elections in two years that will almost surely see a Democrat in power. I just pray for someone more like Bill Clinton than Al Gore or John Kerry. (All right, I'd also settle for John McCain, even if he doesn't switch parties.) |
I would kill for another Clinton. As long as it isn't Hillary. People often ask how the Democrats could *beep* this one up, and the answer is simple: nominate Hillary. She'd lose hands down, and we'd have 4 years of Jeb. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| if any political party could lose an "impossible" election to lose, it would be the democrats. Just see what happens in November. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Why are there not 500,000 American soldiers in Iraq? |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| daskalos wrote: |
| Boy did I seethe when Rumsfeld answered with the pithy answer that KWhitehead quoted -- you go to war with the force you have, not the one you wish you had. |
Especially when he had dozens of "real" military professionals telling him that the force he recommended couldn't do the job.
| daskalos wrote: |
| Bush is the wrong man to lead this struggle. We need a Roosevelt (FD) or a Lincoln, not a Jackson or a McKinley. But the struggle will outlast him. The US has elections in two years that will almost surely see a Democrat in power. I just pray for someone more like Bill Clinton than Al Gore or John Kerry. (All right, I'd also settle for John McCain, even if he doesn't switch parties.) |
I would kill for another Clinton. As long as it isn't Hillary. People often ask how the Democrats could *beep* this one up, and the answer is simple: nominate Hillary. She'd lose hands down, and we'd have 4 years of Jeb. |
Just in case you missed it, Clinton was just on the Daily Show. I would kill for him to come back into power too.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6RqMcOeUhzI
Let's compare that to a George Bush interview around the same day:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UMM3OKGranM
"So what? Why's that not within the law?" <-- nice answer to an interview question, leader of the free world. |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| It appears that none of the "barbarians at the gate" types have yet to be able to answer the question posed to them. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: |
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By no means am I trying to play up the importance of my own post but I think this is very telling. I have been following this current events forum for months and its been enlightening. Every time a poster posts something with a liberal slant they are attacked at the drop of a hat or refuted openly and logically.
Here I am, a poster without much history here, and the Bush suppourters are silent. Is it because I have not been a virulent "liberal" and they dont know how to handle me? Is it because I have questioned Bush's leadership and they are not sure if I'm one of those "weak minded" liberals or maybe a serviceman here in Korea?
I ask again. All you posters who use post after post to try and convince us all of the evil and impending threat that Islam is, why are you here on the net? Why have'nt you taken up a weapon and joined your president in his "war on terror"? I want to hear your reply. If you would like to join up but have already done your service or for some other reason cannot serve, let it be known. Stand up for god sakes.
Only one poster has tried to answer my question and I appreciate it. My post was not aimed at those who at the very least are able to question Mr. Bush's policies but those who have so virulently tried to paint Islam as universal threat our way of life. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| yawarakaijin wrote: |
By no means am I trying to play up the importance of my own post but I think this is very telling. I have been following this current events forum for months and its been enlightening. Every time a poster posts something with a liberal slant they are attacked at the drop of a hat or refuted openly and logically.
Here I am, a poster without much history here, and the Bush suppourters are silent. |
That's probably part of it. You might have noticed that a good 50% or so of the posts on this forum are continuations of arguments by people who know each other well (in the online world at least). |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| yawarakaijin wrote: |
| All you posters who use post after post to try and convince us all of the evil and impending threat that Islam is, why are you here on the net? Why have'nt you taken up a weapon and joined your president in his "war on terror"? I want to hear your reply. |
Not American.
If they grant citzenship based on serving in their military (think french foreign legion), then I might consider it I suppose. Same goes for Israel. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| yawarakaijin wrote: |
By no means am I trying to play up the importance of my own post but I think this is very telling. I have been following this current events forum for months and its been enlightening. Every time a poster posts something with a liberal slant they are attacked at the drop of a hat or refuted openly and logically.
Here I am, a poster without much history here, and the Bush suppourters are silent. Is it because I have not been a virulent "liberal" and they dont know how to handle me? Is it because I have questioned Bush's leadership and they are not sure if I'm one of those "weak minded" liberals or maybe a serviceman here in Korea?
I ask again. All you posters who use post after post to try and convince us all of the evil and impending threat that Islam is, why are you here on the net? Why have'nt you taken up a weapon and joined your president in his "war on terror"? I want to hear your reply. If you would like to join up but have already done your service or for some other reason cannot serve, let it be known. Stand up for god sakes.
Only one poster has tried to answer my question and I appreciate it. My post was not aimed at those who at the very least are able to question Mr. Bush's policies but those who have so virulently tried to paint Islam as universal threat our way of life. |
You don't know the personal situation of every poster.
As for me I don't care about the religion. ( the Kurds of Iraq are Muslim) however lets be clear Bathists are fascists. Khomeni supporters are fascists and Bin Laden supporters are fascists. It is true.
The KK Klan are also fascists but they are not so well armed or supported |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| yawarakaijin wrote: |
| All you posters who use post after post to try and convince us all of the evil and impending threat that Islam is, why are you here on the net? Why have'nt you taken up a weapon and joined your president in his "war on terror"? I want to hear your reply. |
Not American.
If they grant citzenship based on serving in their military (think french foreign legion), then I might consider it I suppose. Same goes for Israel. |
Depending on your nationality, the US does offer at least to grease the road to citizenship, after a certain length of honorable service. There may be some residency requirement, but check it out. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
Not American.
If they grant citzenship based on serving in their military (think french foreign legion), then I might consider it I suppose. Same goes for Israel. |
convert to judaism and you're set. at least with israel. |
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