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[Big_Bird]

They cry, pray to Bush and wash out the devil - welcome to Jesus Camp

A documentary on evangelical Christian children's camps has caused uproar in the US

Dan Glaister in Los Angeles
Friday September 29, 2006
The Guardian


The children at the Kids on Fire summer camp are intent as they pray over a cardboard cutout of President George Bush. They raise their hands in the air and sway, eyes closed, as they join the chant for "righteous judges". Tears stream down their faces as they are told that they are "phonies" and "hypocrites" and must wash their hands in bottled water to drive out the devil.

The documentary film Jesus Camp follows three children at the Kids on Fire Pentecostal summer camp in the small city of Devil's Lake, North Dakota.

Tory, aged 10, tells the camera why she likes "Christian, heavy metal rock and roll", rather than Britney Spears. "When I dance", she says, as she cavorts around her bedroom, "I have to make sure that that's God. People will notice when I'm just dancing for the flesh."
Filmed over a year by two New York-based documentary makers, the film has caused a furore since it opened in the mid-west two weeks ago, setting evangelical Christians against non-believers, and separating Pentecostal from non-Pentecostal evangelicals.

Too scary

After a television news report about the film became a hit on YouTube.com, it attracted media attention across the country and opens in Los Angeles today.

Some critics say that the often raw approach used by the camp's founder, Pastor Becky Fischer, as she prepares the children for "war", is too "scary". Others accuse the documentary makers of distorting Pastor Fischer's message.

Jesus Camp is "a sarcastic documentary that paints evangelical, fundamentalist, charismatic, and politically concerned Christians as very shrill, warlike and dangerous," a critic wrote on the Christian website MovieGuide.org.

At one point Pastor Fischer equates the preparation she is giving children with the training of terrorists in the Middle East. "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam," she tells the camera. "I want to see them radically laying down their lives for the gospel, as they are over in Pakistan and Israel and Palestine."

Those comments caught the eye of Talking Heads singer David Byrne, who saw the film at a festival in Washington in June. "I kept saying to myself, OK, these are the Christian version of the Madrasas," he wrote on his blog. "So both sides are pretty much equally sick."

To read the rest of the article click here.

[Junior]

The basic difference is that Christianity glorifies life. Islam glorifies death. ever heard of a christian suicide bomber?



In the koran Muhammad promises a steady supply of young boys for all muslim leaders.

[atlhockey]

Those clips from Jesus Camp are some of the scariest things I've ever seen.

But just remember -- 85% of evangelical Christians leave the church when they reach adulthood (not the Christian church, just the evangelical loonies).

[beck's]

Great pics, Junior. I don't think that we can really distinguish between the idiot fringes of the various religious groups. They are equally crazy. Thing is, here in the 21st century it just happens that the Islamic idiot fringe is a thousand times larger and much more powerful than the Christian one.

[dogbert]

Jesus camp at "Devil's Lake"

LOL




David Byrne blogs?

[fiveeagles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1_9lR9EpM&eurl=

Love is the method of warfare and the scripture says that our war is not against flesh or blood, but against principalities, powers, demons and rulers.

In otherwords, we get down on our knees and pray for God's righteousness to enter into the society.

Acts of kindness,
Generosity,
Helping the poor,
Speaking out against injustice,

and so on.

[Junior]

Raising your kids

muslim kids prepare for war.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39145

[TheFonz]

A Christian camp designed for children should have more emphasis on Jesus' two main commandments. Love your God with all your heart and all your soul and love your neighbor as yourself. I think they should also be taught to respect other people�s beliefs. Forcing it on others is not following Jesus' example.

This problem is usually created: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wgZGM9B_aE&mode=related&search=

Jesus camp would be better suited to teach children to lead a holy life as exampled by Christ. Jesus camp could ask the children to bring their friends and neighbors alike. Then at the camp they would receive the same message. They could explain what Jesus did on the cross and why he had to die to cover man's sin, but in a respectful way. The girl in the video above is trying to "save" her friend. This should not be the mindset, but a mindset of love and forgiveness. Salvation comes from Christ not from the one who delievers the message. Maybe I misinterpreted what the girl in the video is doing. I just find it bizarre that her and her parents are tag-teaming to try and convert this family to Christ. Instead of being judgmental the girl should be loving and kind and ask her to go church with her as a friend.

Either way I believe this documentary is meant to point out the negative aspects of Evangelicals. Pointing to them as being short-sighted, brainwashed, and hypocritical. Maybe this film will open the doors to being more respectful of other people�s beliefs, but I doubt it.


Edit: Having George Bush cutouts in a church is borderline idol worship. If the children are praying for George Bush I find no fault in that.

[dulouz]

When I go to church and I see all the old women at the mass, I have been lately thinking I wish I could hoot and holler and shoot guns in the air. Yea, that'd be much cooler.

[R. S. Refugee]

[quote="Junior"]

[Hollywoodaction]

Indoctrination...not unlike what goes on in North Korea, except for one little thing...the American kids are also being conditioned to grow up as good consumers of 'christian' products.

Saying we should respect their religious beliefs is missing the point, TheFonz. The reason this is wrong is that these kids are being groomed to be inflexible in their own views, which will undoubtedly create conflict with those who don't share their ideas. Besides, it's unhealthy and dangerous to expose chidren to such pressure. They lack the maturity to deal with the issues in a logical manner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2AqGh8-el0&mode=related&search=

[Gopher]

There is no substance to this thread. There are only partisans hurling their best propagandistic articles and imagery at each other.

We see antiAmericanism in the guise of antiChristianity, Islamaphobia, and antisemitism all wrapped up in one neat little bundle.

Why not stipulate that everyone is conditioned, which is something we have been acutely aware of, increasingly, since the Enlightenment, and just move on to issues of substance?

Oh, yeah, that is right. Because Big_Bird was compelled to start yet another sneering thread to let us know the huge revelation that the Talking Heads' lead singer thinks both sides are "sick."

[beck's]

Great pics Refugee. If Israel gives up its military, Israel ceases to exist. If Israel's Arab enemies give up their military, nothing changes. That says it all.

In the west, we are all Israelis.

[Junior]

Big birds article concerns little more than a sunday school to morally prepare kids to deal with the future. "war" is a misleading word to throw, they're not being trained with M16's. In any case this indoctrination is a minor case and hardly represents what happens across the entire western world or in christianity. Those kids are free to leave or reject such ideology at any time, and they won't be killed for doing so. And for the record I also disagree with what they're doing.

Contrast that though, to the widespread and institutionalised abuse of children across the Islamic world, where children are brutalised and numbed to violence from an early age.

There really is no comparison.



Final question then Big Bird.
if you had to choose, which would you send Letty to?. A sunday school, or to the "best dressed suicide bomber" competition in Palestine?

[Big_Bird]