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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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kertong
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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 Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: To relocate, or not to relocate, that is the question.. |
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Hi everyone,
I posted here an year or two back, because I had a job lined up to go teach english in Korea. However, I received a job offer from Google and could not possibly refuse that offer..
I've been working at G for 2 years now, and the older I get, the more I realize that my window of opportunity to live in Korea shrinks. I feel locked into my career though, as it'd be silly to throw away my Goog career to teach english in Korea just for an year or two. I was quite torn - half of me wanted to quit the job and put my career on hold for an year or two while I got the korea travel bug out of my system while I'm still young. The other half told me I should stick with my career and just take a long vacation in Korea when I could.
However, I came upon a compromise a couple days ago. I know this isn't an ESL teaching job, but I'm hoping some of you could still share your experiences and insight with me.
Google has opened up an office in Seoul, Korea, and I have a chance to relocate there. The cons are, that it's a permanent relocation (in writing at least, though I'd have a chance to transfer back in 1-2 years if I didn't like it there). Also, I'd take a step down on the corporate ladder to do field work (fixing, setting up people's computers and networking equipment), and I'm sure my salary would be renegotiated for the cheaper living there.
80% of me wants to take this oppurtunity nonetheless, but I still have a couple questions.
1) Korean work ethic. I always see korean dramas where managers are berating the workers, running them into the ground with 12 hour workdays, and generally making work a very unpleasant part of life. Is this exaggerated, or do you feel this is pretty accurate?
2) Korean-american status. I was born in Korea, but came to the US when I was 6 (in 1986). I can only speak broken korean now. I am heavily americanized, and am a US citizen - though I look 100% korean on the outside, I sure feel like a pure blooded american (I used to drag race chevies in my day). How are Korean americans treated in Korea?
3) Housing. How is rent in a nice seoul apartment there?
Sorry for the long post. I just feel that I am at quite a crossroads in my life, and I have a chance to live out a dream I've had. The last thing I want to do is make a hasty decision and regret it for the rest of my life...
thank you for reading all,
- kyung |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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1) Korean work ethic. I always see korean dramas where managers are berating the workers, running them into the ground with 12 hour workdays, and generally making work a very unpleasant part of life. Is this exaggerated, or do you feel this is pretty accurate?
2) Korean-american status. I was born in Korea, but came to the US when I was 6 (in 1986). I can only speak broken korean now. I am heavily americanized, and am a US citizen - though I look 100% korean on the outside, I sure feel like a pure blooded american (I used to drag race chevies in my day). How are Korean americans treated in Korea?
3) Housing. How is rent in a nice seoul apartment there?
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1) The Koreans are at work for long hours and bosses can be exactly as shown on TV. My personal experience teaches me that Korean bosses come in only two kinds: great guys or absolute jerks, with nothing in the middle. I'd venture to say the ratio is 40% great guys: 60% jerks.
Its my firm conviction that quality of job and work experiences that shape a person's attitude to their Korean life. Good job equals great Korean experience. By that, I mean that the rest of life here in Korea can be a lot of fun with many interesting things/people around, but a crummy job can spoil your enjoyment of them.
2) I'll let the kyopos address this one.
3) Housing in Korea is VERY expensive. Typically a renter pays a large deposit (over W10,000,000) and then some rent. I had a one bedroom basement apartment in Hongdae (Seoul) where I paid the W10 million + W180,000 a month. It was large enough to be comfortable--I actually had a small bedroom, kitchen, bathroom and living room. Many places are studio type and can be TINY, but livable.
Can you get in contact with anyone currently working here in the company? Ask about the boss and housing policies.
My advice: Not everything in life is about money, as you know. It sounds like you have a great opportunity to come back to Korea and satisfy that desire you have for a Korean experience. I say: Go for it!  |
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europe2seoul
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: To relocate, or not to relocate, that is the question.. |
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| kertong wrote: |
1) Korean work ethic. I always see korean dramas where managers are berating the workers, running them into the ground with 12 hour workdays, and generally making work a very unpleasant part of life. Is this exaggerated, or do you feel this is pretty accurate?
2) Korean-american status. I was born in Korea, but came to the US when I was 6 (in 1986). I can only speak broken korean now. I am heavily americanized, and am a US citizen - though I look 100% korean on the outside, I sure feel like a pure blooded american (I used to drag race chevies in my day). How are Korean americans treated in Korea?
3) Housing. How is rent in a nice seoul apartment there?
Sorry for the long post. I just feel that I am at quite a crossroads in my life, and I have a chance to live out a dream I've had. The last thing I want to do is make a hasty decision and regret it for the rest of my life...
thank you for reading all,
- kyung |
I work in IT and can let you know some of the things. About (1) if you work for a Korean company like Samsung or LG as a Korean, you will work long hours. If you work for a foreign company which Google is, you may not have to work longer hours, but you never know. Depends on the managment and the whole feel. Since its a new office, then you still do not know who will the people be. In general, foreign companies are better in that regard. But expect somebody from work to call you during your off hours to ask you a question, etc. Its not like you go home and that's it until the next day.
(2) KA treatment in Korea - you won't have any problems but nobody would treat you extra specially. However, since you moved to US when you were 6 years old, make sure your name is removed from the family registry or whatever, since you may have a problem that they would like you to go to the army (you are man right?).
(3) If you want a nice apartment in Seoul, you would have to put a nice deposit down and then you can get it. If your place of work would be in Gangnam area and you want to live nearby there, prices are higher than somewhere else but there would be less or no commute. For example, nice officetel (do search what those are - I am writing in a hurry) would be about $75,000 deposit with no monthly rent but you pay for utilities in Yeoksam-dong, Gangnam-gu which is about 2 stops from Gangnam Station and 2 from COEX. I guess paying $10K and $600/mo would be another solution. In other parts $10K/$200-300 is OK. But those are officetels. If you want a nice apartment, like 2-bedroom, with many windows and light, and fairly new so you do not have many problems its higher.
All in all, you should think about why you want to go to Korea. If you never been there since you went to US, I think maybe taking some vacation and checking things out. You see, moving to Google Korea would not be a very wise choice career-wise. Google main office is in CA and main tasks are done there. There is a ceiling of what you can do here in Korean office and US HQ is pulling the shots. Where do you want to be?
Further, suppose you become fluent in Korean somehow, and decide its time to join a Korean company, with some work experience, etc you may get some higher position. But you will work longer hours than US...one example: A 1-hour 2PM-3PM meeting in US lasts from 2-3PM. If all points are not discussed meeting is stopped since people have schedules. In Korea, meeting would start at about 2-2:20PM and end way past 3PM destroying your schedules and plans you may have.
Last, people from Korea want to move to US to do development work. Why would you move to Korea, with a cut in pay, with a job that is less responsible and more easily replaceable? |
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xtchr
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: To relocate, or not to relocate, that is the question.. |
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| kertong wrote: |
The last thing I want to do is make a hasty decision and regret it for the rest of my life...
thank you for reading all,
- kyung |
I think Ya-Ta Boy's post is good advice.
It does not sound like you're making a hasty decision at all, as you've been thinking about it for quite some time, and I think you'll only regret it for the rest of your life if you don't give it a go.
Hope it works out for you. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: To relocate, or not to relocate, that is the question.. |
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| kertong wrote: |
and I'm sure my salary would be renegotiated for the cheaper living there.
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Don't most multinational companys pay an expat premium? In addition to your salary, you should get a housing allowance and per diem. And according to the cost-of-living guides foreign companys use, Seoul is one of the most expensive cities in the world. Foreign workers that I've talked to can usually live well off of their per diem and bank their salary. |
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Matilda
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Location: Gimhae gal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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IMHO taking 1 or 2 years out from your career will not harm it in the long run. The time spent here will also not be a total loss... you can always refer to the experience as 'honing your communication skills' yadda yadda...
Also, remember the saying no one ever said on his deathbed, "gee, if I'd only spent more time at the office."
I think you have already made up your mind but want some reassurance. Do it! Come over! |
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munji
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| europe2seoul wrote: |
About (1) if you work for a Korean company like Samsung or LG as a Korean, you will work long hours. |
I know for sure that LG has the best working hours in respective industry. Here in Daejeon - 8-5pm. Its a different case that most of K-colleagues dont go home at 5pm and stick around not doing too much productive work anyway.
Apart from that, if you're only or one of the few foreigners, you'd face some problems as most of the communication would be occuring in korean (yes, even in big companies), otoh maybe in a non-korean company, its not that bad. You could contact Jodie at asiapages. wordpress .com to find out her experience about working here as a Korean/American. I wouldnt count on the korean ancestory to keep you in a better position, it might be actually against you in terms of advancing up the ladder, if its mostly typical korean colleagues .
I would advise you to find all the facts before you take the plunge. Contact the people in Google-Korea office, talk to people at your current work place about what kind of changes would you see in your remuneration... Most foreigners here get housing provided, would that be case for you? What are the working hours etc? If its mostly k-people working over there, expect the usual heirarchial treatment, but it could be radically different since its not a korean company.
Knowing as much as you can, it would help you in making an informed decision. If you've made up your mind, re-evaluate. And if you do come here, keep another option available, should you regret coming here.
btw: whether people like it or not, most came here for money in the first instance, not because they wanted to be here.
ya, I repeated - if its mostly k-colleagues, but that's very important! |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: To relocate, or not to relocate, that is the question.. |
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| kertong wrote: |
Hi everyone,
2) Korean-american status. I was born in Korea, but came to the US when I was 6 (in 1986). I can only speak broken korean now. I am heavily americanized, and am a US citizen - though I look 100% korean on the outside, I sure feel like a pure blooded american (I used to drag race chevies in my day). How are Korean americans treated in Korea?
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I edited out most of your post for brevity.
There is one VERY important point you need to consider.
I assume that you are male.
You were born in Korea and I assume of Korean parents.
You were then a Korean citizen.
IF you did NOT formally renounce your citizenship when you came of age ( turned 18 ) then, in spite of your US citizenship, you are still considered by Korea to be a Korean citizen and are subject to the draft and 2-2 1/2 (depending on the branch of service) years of MANDATORY military service.
They will not allow you to renounce your Korean citizenship during the period that you are subject to the draft. (age 19-35).
Korea does NOT acknowledge dual citizenship. |
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bobbyhanlon
Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Location: 서울
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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i would have thought that a company like google wouldn't be run in the traditional korean way, but then, you know it better than we do.
also, if you have this opportunity to come here with google, don't even think for a second about teaching english! sorry if that sounds harsh.. but really.. there are so many crappy schools out there that there's a very good chance you would regret quitting working for the world's hottest company to go to some lousy hakwon.
it is a shame you would have to take a step down though.. i suppose it just depends on what you want out of life. living in korea is a weird and wonderful experience, and it will make you laugh and cry, sometimes at the same time. personally, i've been here almost 3 years, and i now know that i'm done with it. however, i don't regret coming.
i'd say that if you think you can get your career back on track in a couple of years, it won't do you any harm to come here, and you'll certainly have an interesting experience.
as for being a korean-american, i really wouldn't know, but some of my kyopo friends say that its a good chance to get in touch with their roots, but that its not without its downside. you might feel excluded from both korean people's stuff and pure foreign people's stuff, and not know which way to turn. people may get at you for being korean and yet not being korean, which i'm sure must be annoying. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Google he
Do they have any job openings in Korea? |
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kertong
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Hi everyone!
Wow, thank you for all the informative replies. I apologize for my late reply to this thread!
First off, yes - those are the cons I am weighing out. The step down in career, being away from headquarters, taking a possible pay cut, etc. However, my other alternative was to quit my job and teach english in Korea. This is definitely a compromise, but it is something I'm willing to take - I want to live in Seoul while I'm young. I'm turning 27 in a couple months, and I'll soon be tied down before I know it - I feel like my time is running out to travel unattached.
Oh, and as for the military, I *believe* I did renounce my korean citizenship when I was 18 - there was some legal paperwork my parents did for me that I don't quite remember. I either renounced it, or deferred it as I was going to college. Thanks for the heads up though - it is definitely something I have to look into.
Yeah, Google Korea has openings. Feel free to email me at [email protected] if you're interested in applying. There's a couple positions open, so be sure to check google.com/jobs, and the seoul.craigslist.org job listings pages.
Would love to hear more about the korean-american in korean aspect. Other than that, I am currently negotiating the terms of my transfer to see if it is doable - hopefully, they will secure housing for me. 
I'll keep you guys posted! I appreciate everybody's insight - thank you!
- kyung |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Chevys ! |
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kertong
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| Chevys ! |
I used to 1/4 mile my old camaro in college. Chevy 350cid engine with some mild valvetrain/cam/exhaust/tuning work, was pushing about 370hp at the crank, putting about 340 of that to the wheels. All my asian friends would give me a whole lot of flak for not driving a honda, though.
it was good times! Until a ring cracked, oil blew, and my engine bay caught fire. |
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europe2seoul
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: To relocate, or not to relocate, that is the question.. |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
Don't most multinational companys pay an expat premium? In addition to your salary, you should get a housing allowance and per diem. And according to the cost-of-living guides foreign companys use, Seoul is one of the most expensive cities in the world. Foreign workers that I've talked to can usually live well off of their per diem and bank their salary. |
If this is an approved inter-company transfer. But if he is actually not needed in Korean office in the eyes of his managment, then there is no reason to make such a transfer. Anyway, I read his is trying to negotiate so I wish him luck.
Personally, I also quit my job and went to Korea to pursue further education and if I didn't come I think I would regret it with an "What if..."
And lets say you are a regular Joe living in Korea and take a job in some company in Korea. You don't get any premiums, because you are hired in Korea like any other Korean person. This is not his case, I am just saying... |
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