Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Thiuda]

After looking over the job adverts today it looks like the conditions for university positions are getting better. Base pay at many universities, though by no means all, seems to have increased to around 2.5 million a month for between 12-18 hours of instruction per week, vacation work is being paid as overtime, as it should be, and housing seems to be getting better as well. Also, more universities are asking for qualified applicants, i.e. M.A.'s and above in related fields, something I feel indicates a shift to quality instruction by professionals, away from edutainment and "pronunciation monkeys."

The job adverts on Dave's aren't the only indication that jobs are getting better. The university at which I currently work has recently upgraded the status of foreign instructors from Adjunct- to Assistant Professors, following two years of teaching, pay has risen quite substantially, and our contracts have been extended to two years with the possibility to extend indefinitely. Tenure is unfortunately still not a possibility for us, but on the whole there seems to be a shift to better conditions.

What do you think?

I should point out that I�m writing from the standpoint of someone who has been teaching and living in Korea for slightly over five years and has an M.A. in a related field. I�m sure that someone with a Ph.D. and more experience than me would consider the situation still less than optimal.

[Real Reality]

[Sina qua non]

[Homer]

Thiuda,

A plausible observation.

However, you should know that many of the better university jobs are never really advertised as they hire in-house through their current staff.

[Thiuda]

Regarding RR's comments:

I agree with you that in comparison to our Korean colleagues we still function largely as workhorses; foreign instructors usually teach double the course load at lower remuneration. I'm also aware that foreign staff members rarely receive a research- or travel budget. I did, however, state that my observations come from the standpoint of someone who is not in possession of a Ph.D. and therefore does not warrant the same benefits as one who is.

Furthermore, I feel that comparing my contract to that of my Korean colleagues and asking for the same is unrealistic. Of course I would like certain benefits they enjoy, but I do not have a Ph.D. and I was hired under a different premise. Regardless of my title, I am a language instructor and instruct classes in English conversation and composition. I was not hired to further the knowledge of my field, I do not instruct high-level content courses, and I am not necessitated to publish. Of course, someone who does have a Ph.D. and is required to do research, instruct graduate level courses and publish should be paid at par with their Korean counterparts.

The point of my original post was to highlight what I perceive as a trend into the right direction for those such as myself. I have read the posts about the hogwonisation of universities, the lack of professionalism that pervades the system, etc., but what I am asking is; are university jobs generally getting better, for those like me, or are they not?

Regarding Homer's comment:

That may be, however I fail to see how the fact that some universities hire staff based on current instructors' recommendations answers the question posed above.

How do these "better university jobs" compare to those advertised?

[Homer]

[Pyongshin Sangja]

Yeah, you can speak English in complete sentences and they can't.

[Homer]

[Unposter]

I don't know Homer.

I guess there are two points in this thread: Are salaries and conditions going up and are they fair? IMO, salaries and conditions are getting better at some non-uniwon universities (I seem to remember a lot of complaints about the Yonsei FL recently) but I would not call them fair.

At my university, there is little to no publishing done by the English Department. And, we North American Profs do many content courses, including Graduate School with double the hours, half the pay, many administrative duties, and even "research" in departmental "journals."

Generally, I don't mind as I know it is my ability to do all that (and my interest in doing that) that keeps me around. But, do I think I am being exploited? Yes. So, no, I do not complain. I like my job. But, I still do not think it is fair. And, those are two completely different points. And, I hope you can understand that.

I think most people realize that we native-speakers are kind of just tolerated around here to the extent that we are "useful." And, generally thrown away when we loose our usefulness. Though I am not sure that is not what happens back home either. Some people accept this. To a large degree, I do. Some people react by doing as little as possible and try to milk the Koreans for all they are worth thinking they are just playing their game. I don't particular care for this but I understand it. Others just never understand the game.

But, understanding the game or not, there is still a place inside of me that is a little upset by the treatment.

[PRagic]

In a nut shell, no, the salaries are not getting better. Actually, they may just be coming back around to par after tanking for a few years. Case in point: I was getting 2.5/month for 15 hours, fully paid vacations, and killer housing in 1999 with just my MA. Did you see SNU's current add? 2.5. And that's SNU! They used to have the best paid jobs in the land.

Like you, I am glad to see many universities asking for the MA. Unfortunately, not enough of them are demanding it. For the most part, they are still taking BAs, and the pay differential isn't enough to attract qualified and experienced MAs.

We'll have to see where this goes.

[newyorker]

Why is it important that someone has an MA to teach 'conversation' at a university. I have an MA in applied linguists and teach conversaton to first year university students, this is a job that could have done with a BA. The pay is probably a little higher but come on, teaching english is far from rocket science. How can a teacher not become bored teaching the same material over and over agian. At least now I have time to work on and research my PHd.

[Homer]

Good post Unposter,

You make some interesting points.

However what would you consider fair and in comparison to what (Job wise of course)?

I am curious to find out.

What were you hired as (job title and responsabilities)?

What size university do you work at (is it a College or a Large national university)?

These all play a hand in what you are being paid and what your status is or can be.

[PRagic]

Just a quick reply to newyorker:

The necessity of higher degrees to teach conversation classes, intro or advanced, is a topic that has been discussed previously. You are correct, but, then again, why does someone need an MA or Ph.D. in economics to teach micro and macro 101? Why do you need a Ph.D. in management to teach fundamentals of business? The fact is, you don't, and English conversation is no less important that mico econ or fundamentals of business 101. Degrees usually mean that the instructor has more of a breadth of knowlege to fill in and pick up where the text leaves off. Sure, someone with a BA could teach the class, but someone with an MA has newer and fresher perspectives, and can try to deploy some of the newer theories of language acquisition. Just a thought.

Working at university means a bit more than just putting the time into classes. You not only take responsibility for a large number of students, you do so as a representative of the university.

The way I look at it, universities are in the business of knowledge, and degrees are just an expedient way of determining committment to a field of study and the potential for successful teaching. POTENTIAL, before all the apologists out there start ranting on about all the loser professors with Ph.D.s that they've had!

[Unposter]

At my school, the difference in pay between someone with a B.A. and someone with an M.A. is 100,000 won per month, so I think being paid 100,000 won per month less than the Korean Profs would be fair.

Just joking.

It really doesn't matter to me. My point is that it is not fair -- whatever that means. So, Homer, what do you think would be fair for a native-speaking Instructor to be paid who does pretty much the same work as his Korean counterparts?

[laogaiguk]