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US Republicans Launch Terror Ad - BBC
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The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:04 am    Post subject: US Republicans Launch Terror Ad - BBC Reply with quote

US Republicans Launch Terror Ad

The US Republican Party has launched a controversial terror-linked TV advertisement to bolster support ahead of mid-term elections next month. The footage shows al-Qaeda leaders with captions of threatening statements, while the soundtrack of a ticking bomb plays in the background. The advertisement, which ends with the sound of a bomb exploding, is due to air from Sunday.

Both Osama Bin Laden and his second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, are shown in the commercial, which is entitled "The Stakes". Attributed quotes such as "Kill the Americans" and "What is yet to come will be even greater" are flashed across the screen.

Gun-bearing militants in training camps are also shown, followed by the stark message: "These are the stakes. Vote November 7th."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6072326.stm


- "These are the stakes" is a famous election ad phrase, having been used in Johnson's famous 1964 presidential nuclear spot, "Daisy". (realvideo)
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Meegook



Joined: 12 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This news warrants an entire thread?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This news warrants an entire thread?


I think it does.

I hope the Dems respond with a visually stimulating counter ad: almost 3,000 more dead in a voluntary war that has done a lot to create terrorists, a skyrocketing national debt to pay for the war, the loss of allies, the loss of international respect, the adoption of a law that allows torture, secret prisons all over the world, the government inserting itself into private family matters (Terri Schiavo)...The stakes are high.
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The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's not at all clear that the "terrorism" issue is one that helps Republicans, as they seem to believe. If they were doing such a bang-up job handling external relations, why is the terror alert (permanently) so high?

With only a couple of weeks before the elections, it was either run this ad, or crank up the alert level to "super-ultra-elevated" and circulate reports involving crop-dusters.

Apparently afraid voters choose Republicans.

.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
or crank up the alert level to "super-ultra-elevated" and circulate reports involving crop-dusters.


I think when a government decides to rule through fear it has to work hard to keep the fear going. Except in a dictatorship where you control the flow of information, people gradually get used to the threat level and go back to thinking about other things. I think they also expect to see some progress in dealing with the problem.

Inflated rhetoric can backfire if you don't come through with some real-world successes.

I think the Republicans would like to play the xenophobia card but can't afford to permanently write off Hispanic votes in California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and Florida. Not to mention deeply offend/alienate their upper middle class constituency by tossing them into jail for hiring illegals and pissing everyone else off for raising fruit, vegetable and meat prices.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Inflated rhetoric can backfire if...


Indeed, but I would hope that we can all recognize that the problem of "inflated rhetoric" -- AKA overly dramatic hyperbole/scare tactics -- is far from exclusive to the Republicans.

I've been getting the usual "vote yes" or "vote no" on this or that proposition for the upcoming election. It is nearly impossible to tell which proposition means what exactly. All I know is that, according to Democrat and Republican partisans alike, failing to vote "correctly" on proposition X will result in general sociocultural meltdown and Jesus may even reapppear and judge us all "guilty."

However this may be, this board is markedly leftist. And that is fine. This notwithstanding, please do not single out the Republicans or posture as if none of these criticisms against the right are equally applicable against the left -- which is in fact far from the hand of righteousness some here claim it to be. (Think, for example, of the scare tactics Truman employed to bring about Cold War militarization via NSC-68, for example; or how about the pernicious kinds of propaganda -- both black and white -- Truman, JFK, and LBJ authorized and directed CIA to use in the Italian and then Chilean elections?)

So it is not a matter of "look what the dastardly Republicans are saying now," or the Democrats either for that matter. Rather, it is a matter of a political process that has come to be about reckless, emotional assertion and barely-concealed attempts to manipulate voters, and not at all about thoughtful decision-making...Let's, then, please address the problem for what it really is and set the partisan bickering aside, shall we?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Gopher,

I think it's too late in the game to reform American political behavior of the sort you are talking about.

As any unbiased observer of American politics will admit, Democrats are like Dove soap, 99.9% pure. The problem goes all the way back to when the nefarious Federalists (the Republicans of their day) under John Adams passed the Alien and Sedition Acts making criticism of their grab for permanent power illegal and jailed some newspaper publishers. When the campaign for Adams' re-election started they knew they were in trouble and issued various rumors in their attempt to block Jefferson from his rightful office. Here is a quote from Wikipedia: "Federalists spread rumors that the Republicans were radicals who would murder their opponents, burn churches, and destroy the country." [It's confusing because Jefferson's Republicans are today's Democrats.]

This was not a nice thing to say about your opponent, as I think you have to agree.

But there was perhaps an even greater outrage perpetrated. History books record that Jefferson's Republicans "accused Adams of planning to declare himself king and make a dynastic marriage with Britain".[Wikipedia] The outrage of course is that no Republican would stoop so low as to say something challenging an opponent's patriotism. After all, as I said, Democrats are 99.9% pure. [I'm sure our British friends reading this are scratching their heads and wondering how this could be objectionable to anyone.] There are two theories about what REALLY happened:

a) Either the Federalists (Republicans of today) made up the rumor and accused their own man and blamed it on their opponents (IGTG's great-granddaddy is a prime suspect)

b) Or that some historian, dismayed that one of our political parties was guilty of all human failures and misdeeds, wanted to write a 'balanced' account and had to make up the vicious rumor about Adams so that his book would be nice and fair.

There is NO question whatsoever that Jefferson's guys would ever have really said what they have been accused of. We know this is true because they were Republicans (Democrats).

I hope this has cleared things up for you. I know as a recent convert to Republicanism this may be an uncomfortable truth, but someone who has entered the snake pit of Republicanism should know the truth.

PS: I would agree with you that newspaper reports and history books should strive for balance and accuracy, but I don't think an exchange on a message board need to.

I�ll end with this excerpt from Washington�s Farewell Address, since he says it better than I could:

�Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party, generally.
21 This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.
22 The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.
23 Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.
24 It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.
25 There is an opinion, that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the Government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in Governments of a Monarchical cast, Patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And, there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume. �
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The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:

I would hope that we can all recognize that the problem of "inflated rhetoric" -- AKA overly dramatic hyperbole/scare tactics -- is far from exclusive to the Republicans.

I've been getting the usual "vote yes" or "vote no" on this or that proposition for the upcoming election. It is nearly impossible to tell which proposition means what exactly. All I know is that, according to Democrat and Republican partisans alike, failing to vote "correctly" on proposition X will result in general sociocultural meltdown and Jesus may even reapppear and judge us all "guilty."

I agree, and that's why I included in the OP a link to the 40 year old ad that also used scare tactics, made by the Democratic party to capitalize on post-Cuban Missile Crisis nuclear fears.

It even used some of the same language, possibly in homage.
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Inflated rhetoric can backfire if...


Indeed, but I would hope that we can all recognize that the problem of "inflated rhetoric" -- AKA overly dramatic hyperbole/scare tactics -- is far from exclusive to the Republicans.


What else would you expect from a Republican? An ad that is 100% fear-mongering, and his best answer? Dems do it, too!

Really? Do they? I think a little show and tell is in order. This ad is nothing more than continuation of The Big Lie, and you know it. It is indefensible, and you know it. Your post is bull, and you know it.

The level of rhetoric of fear, and rhetoric in general, is so far out of whack in favor of the Republicans that pointing the finger back the other way could be likened to an arsonist caught with gas can and hot mtach in his hand pointing to the back of the gathered crowd at a fire and saying, "Look! He has a cigarette! He did it!"

Quote:
...this board is markedly leftist


Bwuhahahahahahaha!!! Talk about out of control rhetoric!!
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Democrats are like Dove soap, 99.9% pure...


"Ninety-nine percent pure?" This implies much more than mere campaign rhetoric.

So, sorry. No. Not buying it. Absolutely not. You cannot make such claims about the Democratic Party. (Are you being jocular or sarcastic and I missed it? I cannot believe you would seriously say such a thing, Ya-ta.)

And if you were indeed serious, going back to independence-era U.S. history, knowing what I know you know in this field, this makes you look a bit crafty on this issue. We should probably limit the discussion to post-Civil War U.S. politics, as it was really a completely different country before then, and, like your example shows, this can get a bit confusing when discussing the partisans and their modern equivalence. I am sure can agree with me on this.

Let me clarify at the outset that I would never make such claims on the Republican Party's integrity -- or any other policital entity's, integrity, not in any place or in any time in human history -- by the way.

Politics is simply a dirty, corrupting business, and no one in it has clean hands in any way whatsoever. Even the "dovish" Democratic Party. Calling one or another political entity "pure"...that just sounds incredibly naive.

Here are four useful Wikipedia summaries to make my point on both the scare tactics and attack ads issue as well as your "purity" claim...

Context on the Lemon's ref...

Quote:
One of the earliest and most famous television attack ads, known as "Daisy Girl," was used by Lyndon Johnson against Barry Goldwater. The ad opened with a young girl innocently strolling through a field and gathering flowers. It then zoomed in to an extreme close up to her eye, then cut to an image of a nuclear explosion. The ad was shocking and disturbing, but also very effective. It convinced many that Goldwater's more aggressive approach to fighting the Cold War could result in a nuclear conflict...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_ad

Quote:
The Cook County Democratic Organization was one of the most powerful political machines in American history. Commonly called the "Chicago machine", the organization dominated Chicago politics from the 1930's to the 1970's...

The most famous example of the Chicago machine in action was in the 1960 presidential election. Daley believed John F. Kennedy would be a tremendous help to Democratic candidates on the ticket, and so he used all the machine's power to turn out the vote for Kennedy. Kennedy won Illinois by only 9,000 votes, yet won Cook County by 450,000 votes, with some Chicago precincts going to Kennedy by over 10 to 1 margins. Illinois' 27 electoral votes helped give Kennedy the majority he needed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Democratic_Machine

Quote:
Tammany Hall was the name given to the Democratic Party political machine that played a major role in New York City politics from the 1790s to the 1960s...

William M. Tweed (April 3, 1823 � April 12, 1878), commonly known as "Boss" Tweed, was an American politician and head of Tammany Hall, the name given to the Democratic Party political machine that played a major role in New York City politics from the 1790s to the 1860s. He was convicted and eventually imprisoned for stealing millions of dollars from the city through graft...

The end came when one of the plunderers, dissatisfied with the amount he received, gave The New York Times evidence that conclusively proved that stealing was going on. In a subsequent interview about the fraud, Tweed's only reply was, "What are you going to do about it?" However, accounts in The New York Times and political cartoons drawn by Thomas Nast and published in Harper's Weekly resulted in the election of numerous opposition candidates in 1871. Tweed is attributed with exclaiming, "Stop them damned pictures. I don't care so much what the papers say about me. My constituents can't read, but, damn it, they can see pictures!..."

Boss Tweed was portrayed by Jim Broadbent in the 2002 film Gangs of New York.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_Tweed

And let's not forget the (Southern) Democratic Party's shining moment in U.S. history, shall we, and this decades before these people partly broke or at least forced compromise in FDR's New Deal in the late 1930s for fear that the President was planning on moving to articulate and assert a civil rights program, which, of course, seems to have been his plan, by the way...

Quote:
Southern Democrats led the charge to secede from the Union and form the Confederate States of America...Many Northern Democrats fled the party to join the Republicans. When the war was over, and the Confederacy destroyed, a deep resentment among Southern citizens towards Republicans helped propel the Democratic Party to a majority in Congress by the 1870s and bring an end to Reconstruction...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats

So if we are going to attack one party's election-year behavior and ignore the other's (especially when talking about long-term, well-established patterns of behavior), or, worse: denounce the one and praise the other as "99.9% pure," then I think we should recognize that what is going on here is a continuation of partisan attack -- no more, no less.

And, Ya-ta, I wholly agree that we should all know the truth, and the whole truth, on which partisan organization we might choose to back and its pros and cons. I, for example, have no illusions about the shortcomings of the ones I just voted for in my early ballot. I respect your decision to vote for the ones you might vote for (and I do hope you vote, by the way). But please to not present your champions as being "99.9% pure" and, at the same time, use emotionally-loaded reptilian words to refer to the ones I have chosen to back...
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(Are you being jocular or sarcastic and I missed it? I cannot believe you would seriously say such a thing, Ya-ta.)


Yes, you did miss it.
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happeningthang



Joined: 26 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Mr. Gopher,

As any unbiased observer of American politics will admit, Democrats are like Dove soap, 99.9% pure.



I don't know if there's any such thing as an unbiased observer, but being Australian keeps me far removed from American partisanship. I'm far enough away that the Republicans versus Democrat morality competition blurs into vague notions that act as sterotypes.

Democrats are ineffective and Republicans are evil.

Maybe the conservatives are right to say the press, hollywood, and universities are biased against them because that's what I'm basing my ideas on and they universally damn the Republicans. At least the press I read. Like I say, I'm not American, I've never lived in America but a lot of the media I come across gives the impression the republicans are no good. That's from movies like "Bob Roberts", "Wag the Dog", "Bulworth", documentaries, The Simpsons, songs, etc.

The Republicans also have notable things going against them in this regard such as Nixon and watergate, Kissinger and Chile, Regan and Iran/Contra, Bush and stealing elections. The Democrats don't really have an image at all overseas, they're so overshadowed by the antics of the Republicans.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Republicans also have notable things going against them in this regard such as


Personally, I think Fox News belongs on your list of antics.
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daskalos



Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
(Are you being jocular or sarcastic and I missed it? I cannot believe you would seriously say such a thing, Ya-ta.)


Yes, you did miss it.


Okay good. Now that that's all settled ... It's Ivory Soap, and it's 99.44% pure.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
(Are you being jocular or sarcastic and I missed it? I cannot believe you would seriously say such a thing, Ya-ta.)


Yes, you did miss it.


Excellent. (I was really hoping this was the case.)

This is one of the major deficiencies in chat-style communication, where tone of voice, facial expressions (winks, etc.), and other vital nonverbal indicators are wholly absent...
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