Korean Job Discussion Forums

[wipeters1]

I suppose this is an obvious question. Maybe I just need to get this off my mind.

Here's the picture. I applied to a university in Pusan. They advertised 12 hours for 2000,000 won, plus 2 months vocation, on campus housing.
B.A. required. 3 to 4 years teaching experience.
Sounds not too bad.

So, yesterday me wife and I take a bus and go all the way out to this university.

When I first arrived I was meet by two foreigners who were at odds with each other from the very beginning. They were practically fighting with each other over who was going to go first, and who was going to talk about what. And they have each been with this university for over 6 years.

Then comes the contract.

"You can be dismissed at any time, for any reason, we do not have to tell you why you are being dismissed."
__Asked them what this was. They don't know. "Just standard," they tell me.

"two weeks paid vocation each, one in the summer and one in the winter."
__Told them the advertisement stated 2 months each. Answer: "Don't worry about it, everyone gets two months, but be aware that it is in there." They mean the two week vocation line.

No severance pay.

Not one hogwan, but two hogwans. And one is off campus. But no mention of hogwans or institute classes on the advertisement.
Answer: "Every universities does it this way. We do not advertise hogwan classes only university classes. This is standard for all universities."

Then came the formal interview.

One Korean lady was looking over my papers while another foreigner was chatting with me. Okay fine.

Then the lady says oh, "Your M.A. is only in church education." I said, "it is in Christian education and learning theories are learning theories, no matter who your traget audience may be." She was not convinced. I could tell by the look on her face. I worked two years on this M.A. and I wrote an extensive thesis. I was treated like, it was nothing, of no use to them.

Then she picks up my portifolo and flips through it with her thumb. You know, not opening the papes at all. Not even bothering to look.

Then she asked, "Do you have any teaching experience?" I told her that I have four years in Korea, at hogwans. "Oh, that don't count was her repliey." Really disappointing, I work so hard for four years, and this is the attitude, I receive.

-They did not advertise for university experience. If they would have I would not have went. I am not stupid. And if I am not qualified, why did they ask me to attend an interview.

Then she said, "Oh, this is just part one of the interview. If you are selected you have to come back again." No reason given, just have to come back.

Again, I know this maybe normal for Korea. But I feel belittled and treated badly. I feel like my M.A. is worthless, and that I have no teaching experience whatsoever, like the last four years of teaching are non-existent.

This is really bothering me, maybe it is upsetting me so much, becasue I did not tell her to go to hell. I pretty much let her get away with saying what she wanted. I just feel down.

This was my first job interview with a university; are they all like that?

Anyways, the point was to get this out, and now I have done that.

Thanks.

[kermo]

Yikes. From their attitude, it sounds like you would do well to avoid this place, whether they want you or not. That contract sounds like a nightmare. Why would they discount your hagwon experience if they're running two of them in the meantime?

Maybe your self-presentation skills need some work, or maybe they couldn't be bothered to check your qualifications in the first place. Sorry you wasted the trip.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

Wait to see if you get the second interview. If you do, at the last minute call to cancel and tell them that you think their offer sucks in comparison to what you can get elsewhere.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

Do you like high school students? You might find you get a lot more appreciation and respect at a high school, and being there 8:30 to 5:00 really aint so bad if you like the place.

[the_beaver]

A lot of universities only give a few weeks holiday in the contract. I think (if I remember correctly) that SWU only gave 4 in the contract, but we usually ended up with around 12.

The rest of your experience sucked.

[Real Reality]

[mishlert]

[denverdeath]

Isn't that place supposed to be a Christian university? You'd think they might prefer to have someone with a master's in Theology or something similar. Did they ask you if you would go to church if they asked you? Maybe I got the place wrong as Dong-A and P/BKNU and a few other places here have also had postings up recently, but it sure sounds like the same place that I've been to for interviews for the past three years in a row. I think I was back for the "second" interview all three times, but never got the job. Just chalk it up to as interview experience and keep trying. I think their 2mil, based upon hours, is the best in the city. Try the Dong-A position that's been posted for 1.9(with master's). You might find the people better there. Money may not be that important and if you're happy, you'll be more productive, which may lead to other opportunities to make more money legally. Your master's will help you as will the four year's experience for any uni job. Uni and/or adult hakwon exp may be helpful, but a good interview will go a long way. If you didn't lose it with the attitude you received from that woman, I salute you.

p.s. Mishlert, PNU's base salary is much lower than 2mil, but I heard it's an okay place to work for if you have a master's or master's-in-progress.

[Karabeara]

I have learned that a common Korean negotiating tactic is to break you down and tell you you are not good enough from the beginning. My co-workers have experienced this as a part of their contract renewal. The boss told one of our Korean English teachers that her university wasn\'t that good, and she really didn\'t deserve to even renew at the school. This after she taught here for a year, and was loved by the students. She worked hard, too. Other co-workers went through similar events, both Korean and foreigner. I think they want to take advantage of the opportunity to make you less than them, and gloat about who is boss.

[BigBlackEquus]

True, Kara. I have seen it too.

Another trick is to, as someone mentioned, hold out until the last possible minute to give them your decision. I am speaking contract renewal here. You can take advantage of the fact that they are Korean, and will wait until the last possible minute to do something. Then, as you sit at the absolute deadline and they are telling you how desperate it is that you must sign, you can have some more negotiating power. But be prepared to walk away. Don't bluff. Be serious. Have another plan waiting in the wings. Before all of this, be very nebulous about whether or not you are planning to renew. That or drop hints that you are planning not to (only do this if you know they like you). That puts the onus on them to give you reason to stay. A previous school of mine played this game where they asked me long in advance to write out what all I wanted in order to stay. I did. Big mistake. They used that information to then threaten to take away several other things so I had to fight just to get those back.

So you need to go into renegotiations with a plan to leave, and be darn serious that you will do just that. Koreans live in a world of lemmings, and are very uncomfortable with unpredictability unless they, the boss, are being unpredictable. Unpredictability is used as a shrewd power trip. I am convinced that is why they don't tell workers things until the last possible moment. They view information as power, even to the detriment of their own business. Lead them on just enough, and stretch them to the absolute last possible moment, then give your demands. And if they don't meet them, say 'no, thank you' and walk away. You might even find that within two days, they change their tune and give in. I've seen it happen.

[mishlert]

[wipeters1]

I would just like to thank each and everyone of you. Your comments have been helpful and I am starting to feel better.

Thanks again.

[denverdeath]

[darkpoet]

wipeters1 you never said what university your interview was with - a few people assumed it was PNU but I'd like to know exactly...

[wipeters1]

Yeah, sure, I have no problem it is Dongseo University. Actually, I also spoke with someone on the phone who works there. I was told that it is going down hill, since the owners cousin started those hogwans. That is starting next year they are mandatory for teachrs, especailly for "new" teachers.

Again, thanks for all your comments!

[Hollywoodaction]

Don't let that experience discourage you. There are plenty of christian and non-christian universities in Korea who would be more than happy to hire you based on your M.A.