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Infoseeker
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Lurking somewhere near Seoul
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 Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: If I were raped today, I would not report it |
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Sometimes I think society is still struggling to move out of a medieval mindset. I know some girls who were raped, and didn't see the point of reporting it, even though it messed them up pretty bad. Why is it still so difficult to prosecute rapists? Why is it still the victim who is put on trial?
If I were raped today, I would not report it
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When I was 18 I worked in a pub, and, one evening, the landlord and his son tried to rape me. Somehow I managed to get away. I didn't report the incident to the police because, back in 1980, it was widely recognised that women who reported a sexual assault were usually seen as liars. I imagined that the police would have grilled me on why I was upstairs with two men (I was taking a sneaky break and sharing a cigarette with the son), and why I had been drinking (I had had half a pint of lager). For years afterwards, while campaigning against rape and other crimes as a founder of the group Justice for Women, I bitterly regretted not reporting my attackers. My overwhelming feeling was guilt. What if they succeeded next time?
Now that guilt has been replaced by anger. While in the 1980s and 1990s police and public attitudes towards rape victims seemed to be improving, they more recently appear to be ricocheting backwards. So much so, that a couple of years ago I made a pact with myself, which I vowed never to reveal publicly. At this juncture I feel I must, though: if I was raped now, I do not think I would report it to the police.
Those who report their attackers and see their cases either discontinued or the defendant acquitted - as happens with almost 95% of reported rapes - are now faced with the risk of being identified, vilified and even criminalised. Anonymity was granted for rape victims in the 1970s, but last week for the first time a woman was publicly "named and shamed" after reporting a sexual assault. |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/women/story/0,,1930818,00.html
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| If more cases such as Shabnam's occur, we may as well forget about the criminal justice system and train groups of vigilantes to exact revenge and, hopefully, deter attacks. Because if I were raped, I would rather take my chances as a defendant in court, than as a complainant in a system that seems bent on proving that rape is a figment of malicious women's imagination. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Upon reading around on the internet, it sounds as though about half of all rape allegations in the States are false (or proven false...whatever).
So what to think? |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I would advise you not to wear a T-shirt that reads as your thread title does. |
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mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| how would traumatized persons make out on a lie detector test? From what I understand a lie detector test measures stuff like breathing and heart rate to tell if someone is lying. Would a victim of a traumatizing experience be able to give a differentiated response between lying and telling the truth? |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
Upon reading around on the internet, it sounds as though about half of all rape allegations in the States are false (or proven false...whatever).
So what to think? |
Upon reading the FBI Unified Crime Reports I found that the false reporting rate for rape is no different than the average for other crimes. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:05 am Post subject: Re: If I were raped today, I would not report it |
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| Infoseeker wrote: |
| Sometimes I think society is still struggling to move out of a medieval mindset. I know some girls who were raped, and didn't see the point of reporting it, even though it messed them up pretty bad. |
I like the new law that allows a victims friend or associate to press charges on her behalf... in britain i think.
I think a big part of the cause is that the media portrays women too much as purely sex objects...sex sells and all that.Its gone too far and should be regulated. In Korea... most of their porn depicts rape scenes and is a blatant insult to women. Ban it.
I wonder how successful the widespread imposition of street cameras in the Uk has been in reducing it too. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Likely not much as most rape occurs in victim's homes and is committed by people they know, as violent crimes against women generally are. |
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mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: If I were raped today, I would not report it |
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| Junior wrote: |
I think a big part of the cause is that the media portrays women too much as purely sex objects...sex sells and all that.Its gone too far and should be regulated. In Korea... most of their porn depicts rape scenes and is a blatant insult to women. Ban it. |
Sex sells for a specific reason - because people like sex. Banning this and that is not going to change the underlying truth that people like sex. It will make you look like the Thought Police though.
And most scientific studies of sexual imagery and pornography indicate that it reduces sex crimes, not increases them. Check out the following links:
The effects of Pornography: An International Perspective
Pornography, Rape, and Sex Crimes in Japan
Studies on the Effects of Pornography
Banning Pornography Endangers Women
I could go on but you can also search more on your own.
I think the major fallacy in the idea that sexual imagery causes rape is the assumption that sexual desire in men is something that is manufactured by external forces. Believe me, its not. Men are wellsprings of sexual desire. It arises quite literally out of the cells of their body and their genetic code. These studies indicate that providing socially and legally acceptable outlets for this inexhaustible supply of libido reduces the socially and legally unacceptable applications. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: |
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The article doesn't make much sense. Bottom line, if some women didn't make false rape allegations, there would be no reason to doubt some reported cases of rape. The author blames a 'sexist' justice system, but fails to acknowledge the root cause of the problem: some women undermining the ability of all women to get justice for rape, by making false rape allegations.
In the first case she discusses, she doesn't have a shred of sympathy for the man who ended up spending three and a half years in jail for a crime he didn't commit, because a woman made what was proven to be a false rape allegation. So why should anyone -- any man, for that matter -- have a shred of sympathy for her opinion if she's not willing to do the same?
Sometimes, equality means treating the opposite gender as your equal, whether they like it or not. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| The author blames a 'sexist' justice system, but fails to acknowledge the root cause of the problem: some women undermining the ability of all women to get justice for rape, by making false rape allegations. |
I don't think you would say the same of burglary victims, or fraud victims.
Rape isn't falsely reported any different from other crimes. Yet people vastly overemphasize that few percentage of reports that are false. In turn that stacks the deck against women who do report. The root cause of that overemphasis is.... what? |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
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| The author blames a 'sexist' justice system, but fails to acknowledge the root cause of the problem: some women undermining the ability of all women to get justice for rape, by making false rape allegations. |
I don't think you would say the same of burglary victims, or fraud victims.
Rape isn't falsely reported any different from other crimes. Yet people vastly overemphasize that few percentage of reports that are false. |
There have been some high-profile reports of false rape allegations, because in those cases the men whom against those allegations were made have had their lives ruined, needlessly. Rape is a terrible crime, but there is no crime so terrible that it justifies punishing someone for something they didn't do. In addition, the root purpose of prosecuting crimes of violence against women is to restore justice to the victims and ensure human rights for all. You cannot restore justice and uphold human rights while undermining them at the same time.
False rape allegations are so high-profile because they are a gross offense against decency, human rights, and our common sense of justice and fairness. Laws to prevent violence against women are intended to be a shield for women, not a sword to be used against those one dislikes.
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| In turn that stacks the deck against women who do report. |
It only stacks the deck against women who lie about rape. As it should, because women who lie about rape hurt most the genuine victims of rape, not to mention the men who have been the victims of false allegations. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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There have been high-profile cases of people falsely accused of child molesting and murder as well. But people are not nearly so quick to be suspicious of those victims as they are of rape victims. Nobody gave John Mark Karr the benefit of the doubt but Kobe Bryant, Mike Tyson, and Willie Kennedy? Different case apparently.
You spoke of equal treatment above... I don't think anybody is asking for anything other than equal treatment of rape victims with other victims. The percentage of false reports is the same as for other violent crimes, and the consequences to the falsely accused is the same -- ruined life, years in prison -- so there is no reason for people to be so quick to bring up the specter of the rape-accusing bitch. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
| There have been high-profile cases of people falsely accused of child molesting and murder as well. But people are not nearly so quick to be suspicious of those victims as they are of rape victims. Nobody gave John Mark Karr the benefit of the doubt but Kobe Bryant, Mike Tyson, and Willie Kennedy? Different case apparently. |
That's because John Mark Karr gave an impromptu press conference in Bangkok where he stated "he was with Ramsey when she died" and that "he was attempting to hurt her when she 'accidentally' died." And I disagree with your assertions that people are more likely to doubt alleged rape victims then they are people who claim to be the victims of child abuse. Roseanne Cash comes to mind.
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| You spoke of equal treatment above... I don't think anybody is asking for anything other than equal treatment of rape victims with other victims. |
I agree that's what society is asking for, but if you re-read the article again, that's exactly what the author DOESN'T want. She is grossly offended that Lord Campbell-Savors publically named someone recognized to be a chronic liar and who sent an innocent man to jail for three years. And she doesn't give a damn about the man who was victimized in this case. She feels that by taking reasonable steps to separate the (very few) liars from the genuine victims, the police are 'moving backwards' in their enforcement of rape laws -- when in fact what they are doing is moving forward.
She just doesn't care if a few innocent men are accidentally sent to prison. She thinks the crime justifies sending anyone accused of it, regardless of any evidence either way, to prison. As far as she is concerned, accusation itself -- or even reasonable doubt -- is the same as conviction. And that's an idea grossly offensive to anyone coming from an intelligent and civilized culture. |
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