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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: Did the mosque gentrify Itaewon? |
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Itaewon in recent years has changed from a hood where you went to meet an eligible GI in a Honky Tonk bar, find a hooker, or get stabbed in a BK washroom to a place where you can get middle eastern food, Italian food, greek food, etc. Lots of Koreans who have lived abroad have over come the societal fear of Itaewon to eat foreign food that's not Koreanized Chinese. My GF also claims Itaewon is popular with Korean celebs for dining. Since most of us wouldn't recognize them if they sat at a table next to us, they find they can dine in relative peace.
My hypothesis is the mosque kick started the transformation. The mosque became ringed with middle eastern grocery stores and restaurants, Indian restaurants, sharing something or another with Pakistani cuisine, found the area friendly. And away we go. People began to think more of Itaewon as a place to go for not Korean/Chinese/Japanese food. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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The mosque terrorized Itaewon.
What used to be an exciting and nonviolent playland for foreigners and Koreans alike became a dark and frightening place teeming with sketchy characters from lesser known African and Middle Eastern locales.
The other foreigners there avoid the streets and duck into restaurants and bars to avoid being accosted or beaten.
Nowadays taxi drivers refuse to stop and young Koreans head elsewhere. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| lesser known African and Middle Eastern locales |
You mean like Qatar, the Ivory Coast and Cameroon? Eek!
I can't compare it to the old days, having been here only 2 years, but the sketchiest characters I meet are not Muslims. Nigeria, for example, is largely a "Christian" country.
However, I'll admit that I don't like walking alone around the mosque, because I assume that a young, single, uncovered woman would be perceived as very naughty in the home countries of some of these guys. That Australian cleric summed it up really nicely last week (though I would like to assume his beliefs are on the extreme side):
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If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?
"The uncovered meat is the problem."
The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."
He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.
"It is said in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa)." |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| Nigeria, for example, is largely a "Christian" country. |
There is a huge muslim state/province in Nigeria though. I believe it uses Sharia law too. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
| Nigeria, for example, is largely a "Christian" country. |
There is a huge muslim state/province in Nigeria though. I believe it uses Sharia law too. |
True, true, but the most populous and wealthy ethnic group is the Igbo. They're Christians, and they're usually the ones who "want to be [my] friend." |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Comparison of Views of Women in Islam, Judaism and Christianity
Sorry, froggy, I think you are getting a lopsided p.o.v.
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| The Igbo, sometimes (especially formerly) referred to as Ibo, are one of the largest single ethnicities in Africa. Most Igbo speakers are based in southeast Nigeria, where they constitute about 17% of the population; they can also be found in significant numbers in Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea. Their language is also called Igbo. The primary Igbo states in Nigeria are Anambra, Abia, Imo, Ebonyi, and Enugu States. The Igbos also constitute more than 25% of the population in some Nigerian States like Delta State and Rivers State.Igbo language is predominant in such cities like Onitsha, Agbo, Ikwo, Aba, Owerri, Enugu, Nnewi, Mbaise, Nsukka, Awka, Umuahia, Asaba, amongst others. |
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The Igbo today
After the Nigerian Civil War, Igboland had been severely devastated. Many hospitals, schools, and homes had been completely destroyed in the brutal war. The Federal government of Nigeria denied the Igbo people access to all the hard currencies such as pound sterling they had saved in Nigeria banks before the civil war, and only allowed them a minuscule compensation of �20 per adult bank account holder. For example, a man who had over �450,000.00 savings in one or several bank accounts could only receive �20.00 following this policy.
In addition to the loss of their savings, many Igbo people found themselves discriminated against by other ethnic groups and the new non-Igbo federal government. Due to the discrimination of employers, many Igbos had trouble finding employment, and the Igbos became one of the poorest ethnic groups in Nigeria during the early 1970s. Igboland was gradually rebuilt over a period of twenty years and the economy was again prospering due to the rise of the Niger Delta petroleum industry, which led to new factories being set up in southern Nigeria. This recovery, from the depths of the Biafran War, is an example of the uncanny resilience and resourcefulness of the Igbo. Many Igbos eventually regained government positions.
The Igbo, however, also face many problems and challenges today. Even today, Igbo people have sometimes continued to face discrimination from other ethnic groups. Igboland towns, such as Enugu, Onitsha and Owerri, lack sufficient resources and good infrastructure for their inhabitants. Also, because the traditional Igbo homeland was becoming too small for its growing population, many Igbo have emigrated out of Igboland. |
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Religion
Nigeria has a variety of religions which tend to vary regionally, this situation accentuates regional and ethnic distinctions but has often been seen as a major source of sectarian conflict amongst the population. All religions represented in Nigeria were practiced in every major city in the 1990s. Islam dominates in the north with some northern states having incorporated Shari'a law amidst controversy.
Muslim 50%, Christian 40%, indigenous beliefs 10% .
Protestantism and local syncretic Christianity predominate in Yoruba areas, while Catholicism has a strong historical presence amongst the Igbo and closely-related ethnic groups. Indigenous beliefs such as Orisha and Voodoo are still widely held amongst the Yoruba and other ethnic groups in the southwest of the country. Recently however, such worship has undergone significant decline, as many adherents are converting to Christianity. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, you're right. I was working largely off of the Igbo folks I met in my hometown, and knowledge from my historian-know-it-all Dad. Sounds like they're having a rough go. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| Yeah, you're right. I was working largely off of the Igbo folks I met in my hometown, and knowledge from my historian-know-it-all Dad. Sounds like they're having a rough go. |
Yeah. One of my good friends in uni was an Igbo. Kind of like Koreans won't mention the war, he didn't like to talk about the state of things back home. He was a Muslim too, so he had no end to a rough time... |
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mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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I want a country to exist named Igboland. That would be awesome. Where are you going for your holiday? IGBOLAND! Where do you want to teach english? IGBOLAND. Or better yet, have an Outer Igboland and an Inner Igboland. Or perhaps Greater Igboland and Lesser Igboland.
With the constant political upheaval in Africa, who knows? I may get my wish before I die. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| mateomiguel wrote: |
I want a country to exist named Igboland. That would be awesome. Where are you going for your holiday? IGBOLAND! Where do you want to teach english? IGBOLAND. Or better yet, have an Outer Igboland and an Inner Igboland. Or perhaps Greater Igboland and Lesser Igboland.
With the constant political upheaval in Africa, who knows? I may get my wish before I die. |
Whither Igboland? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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I guess I didn't intend this as a vote on the evil stain Islam has blotted the righteous peoples of the world with, moving like the forces of Mordor across the good and decent peoples of Middle Earth. And I guess some of those Muslim guys around the mosque really gotta dump a load in their pants every time they see one of the local Korean ladies strut by. I know I do.
I'm just more wondering if the mosque set into motion a chain of expanding dining choices.
Or did Indian cuisine predate the mosque?
Last edited by mindmetoo on Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
I'm just more wondering if the mosque set into motion a chain of expanding dining choices.
Or did Indian cuisine predate the mosque? |
Seems like the mosque set into motion the other.
Every few months I notice a few more extra different kinds of restaurants in Itaewon each time.
Korean celebrities in Itaewon.. yeah, that seems to be true. More food choices, etc. Plus some of the celebrities are in the closet, and Itaewon's other hill is a place to go and be unrecognized outside of that community. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
The mosque terrorized Itaewon.
What used to be an exciting and nonviolent playland for foreigners and Koreans alike became a dark and frightening place teeming with sketchy characters from lesser known African and Middle Eastern locales.
The other foreigners there avoid the streets and duck into restaurants and bars to avoid being accosted or beaten.
Nowadays taxi drivers refuse to stop and young Koreans head elsewhere. |
Is this a serious post? or a stereotype? Sounds like a stereotype similar to what people in rural farmlands say about the cities when they go to them.
Itaewon just looks more like a western city if anything - particularly the mix of people.
Personally I never felt fear or ducked into anywhere to avoid anything there though. People are people. Seems the opposite if anything. I feel like each type of person is going way out of their way not to offend or bother anyone of another group.. at least from a white western guy perspective anyways. You'd think more western people in particular would feel more comfortable, not less comfortable with different people.
Never had a taxi driver ever be afraid to stop in Itaewon.
You're post has got to be in jest, no? |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| mateomiguel wrote: |
I want a country to exist named Igboland. That would be awesome. Where are you going for your holiday? IGBOLAND! Where do you want to teach english? IGBOLAND. Or better yet, have an Outer Igboland and an Inner Igboland. Or perhaps Greater Igboland and Lesser Igboland.
With the constant political upheaval in Africa, who knows? I may get my wish before I die. |
You need to read the novels "Arrow of God" or "Things fall apart" by Chinua Achebe. All about the Ibo struggle for identity and transition into the modern era.
And its spelled "ibo", not "Igbo". |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| It's kind of short-sighted to say Itaewon became a dump when a Mosque moved in, and it was a paradise of prostitution before. If you look back further, it probably became more of a dump when it started specialising in prostitution. |
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