Korean Job Discussion Forums

[venus]

Ok, I guess this is going to attract both the Korea haters and no doubt countless replies frm the soppy, pc, apologists. But I really though about this on the way to work this morning and the absolute idiocy of it just really hit home in a big way.

Ok, so the point I want to make is - how DOWNRIGHT STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE is it of both Hakwan bosses and the authorities who manage the public school system to hire someone from abroad who's only qualification is that they are a native speaker and a degree in what is usualy an unrelated subject and NOT GIVE THEM ANY TRAINING FOR TEACHING WHATSOEVER...?

I just kind of thought, there is no way in hell I could imagine a British school doing this. I mean it is so irresponsible to all involved. Firstly to the kids, I mean due to frustration and lack of class management skills many teachers (me in my first six months included) end up not able to run the class in a conducive manner and end up getting visably annoyed and frustrated, even angry in front of the kids. Secondly, obviously a teacher without even a weeks basic training on how to prepare material, model exercises, structure a lesson etc, will not ever be giving the students the best learning experience and some are even absolutely clueless. One case in mind being a co-worker I had who once bought multi coloured reubber gooey toys for a class and taught the 8 year old kids a song she made up wich went 'the yellow blob goes 'glopy, gloppy gloo', the red blob goes 'ogger bogger bogger.' It was totally unrelated to the course material, yet she thought that would fill out a whole 50 minute class....

Secondly, it is not responsible towards the employee in question. It is NEGLECT. How can you stick someone in a classroom situation five times a day with a bunch of unruly kids who don't want to be there, give you no disciplinary powers or administerial support and expect you to do a good job. It creates nothing but frustration, resentment and stress for the employee, which in turn get projected onto the poor bloody students and even onto their coworkers and management.

I mean can you imagine a British / American/ Australinan etc public school hiring such an unqualified person and letting them have free reign in a classroom...? It's absolutely absurd, it could never happen.

Just think how many problems could be resolved and how much more peaceful and less problematic the whole situation in Korea could be if ESL teachers in Hakwans and Public schools alike were given even ONE WEEKS WORTH of proper observation and supervised classroom practice, guiding on structuring a lesson and managing a class...?

I mean I know Qualified teachers who even have a hard time of it and I know it is as much the disorganised way the schools are run and the unrealistic attitudes they have towards us native teachers that is the main problem.

But I mean doesn't it just sound ridiculous when you realy think about it? Hiring someone untrained and unqualified to be a full time teacher?

Why do they do it..? Can't they see it doesn't work...? I mean they even complain about it themselves. Wouldn't you think a school that had had poor teachers in the past would wake up and think 'ooh lets give them some training, would save us a whole lot of trouble in the long run, now that's an idea...' Don't they know how to learn from their misakes....?

Ok guys - discuss....

ps - any of you annoying pedants with your 'ooh look he made a sp mistake, shouldn't be here' or 'you're complaining, you didn't have to come here, then why don't you leave etc...' JUST SKIP IT. KEEP TO THE TOPIC, WHICH IS THE LACK OF TRAINING ISSUE, NOT CRITICISE ANYONES PERSONAL REASONS FOR BEING HERE etc.

[laogaiguk]

Not enough teachers now. Imagine if they made more stringent rules for hiring us. There would not be enough people to fill all the vacancies. Add in many of them are in it just for the money, and ...

As for the training, that is the norm for ESL around the world. Some places aren't that bad, some offer training. My first job had a week of training and then 3 days of watching the teacher I would replace (in Japan). That is not normal though.

The only point I think that is valid in your OP is for public schools. One would think they would have some really massive, hard core training (atleast 2 weeks) before putting them in. But then again, look at how they are screwing around with the vacation and stuff. If they were smart, they would up the vacation a bit (no loss) and retain the good teachers.

Universities don't count because pretty much all over the world, university professors have no training or ability to teach either

[Yu_Bum_suk]

How would such training work when 99% of Koreans have no idea what a FT can actually do? Koreans don't train their own teachers properly. Already I've had the opportunity to work with four rookie KTs in the public school system and the only one who had a clue what she was doing had learned the ropes at a crap hogwan.

So what if you did get a month's training from the government? Would they have any idea what to do? EPIK sure seems to have its head up its ass about most things.

Then, you get to your school and they have no bloody clue how to use you. The head of English can barely understand English, answers all your questions with 'yah yah', and then tells you 'please plan interesting and funny lessons'.

If the Korean government wanted to be more responsible they should offer a decent, escalating salary and decent, escalating holidays and then stick to hiring only people who have experience at hogwans. Let the hogwans suffer at the public schools' expenses.

[venus]

YUBUMSUK - I agree 100%

I guess what I was getting at and the discussion I wanted to stimulate was more along the lines of - WHY????

Why aren't these people just, well, SMARTER?

Why can't they train their Korean public school teachers??

Why don't they know how to run schools and classes?

Why don't they have a clue about education????

I mean come on; doesn't it just baffle your mind?

It does mine. I mean it REALLY BEATS ME! It really does... A whole nation, not able to learn how to teach teachers????

Koreans, as much as I like them when I'm not involved with them in any business or proffessional capacity, don;t seem to be able to comprehend how to do so many basic things.... WHY?????????????????????????

[venus]

Heated topic like this and only 3 replies....?

Humbug!

>BUMP<

[denistron]

I work in a public school as well. Never had training. Same thing for when I worked in a hagwan. But neither did the korean teachers. It's not strange here, and it's not because your a foreigner or anything.

My theory is that in korean culture the apperance of something is usually more important than reality.

Eaxmple 1) People that learn english all their lives, yet are unable to speak to me.
2)I also speak french, I met many people who majored in french here but couldnt understand I word I said.

I know everyone here could think of a million more of korean contradictions. I'm not here to bash korea or anything, but these false truths are definatly part of culture here.

So I think as long as it looks like you are teaching, and it looks like they are your bosses, and everyone plays into thir roles, then there is no real problem in their minds. Saving face becomes more important than the childrens education. They think "Why wast time with training you if it doesnt help the apperance that the children are learning?"

I know the korean english teacher at my school cant teach. She teaches the english class in 80% korean... Ans this is her proffesion for life. How can she become an english teacher if she can barely speak it. Not to mention the teachers' text books are full of grammar problems. But no one complains because they are playing into their roles an dont want to loose face. Just my 2 cents.

[The Hierophant]

I feel so sorry for the kids who are getting such a raw deal from their education system.

Think how much time and money could be saved if the Korean Government changed the focus of education. If everyday competence were valued more than multiple-choice test scores then perhaps kids could afford to have a little free time to themselves, and their parents could save millions of won each year on the money-drain that is the Hagwon industry.

I agree with the general consensus so far: the failings of Korean education is a systematic problem, but not going along with the system only hurts the students. In order to actually have a future these kids need to pass those stupid, futile multiple-choice exams. The whole system is geared toward an empty goal.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

There's no doubt that the vast majority of us are not being used as effectively as possible. There's no point in getting too depressed about it. With a bit of initiative, confidence, and a willingness to keep an open mind to learning new things we can all play an effective role, even if it's not the most effective one.

If the Korean government gave every school a Dutch or Scandanavian high school graduate to do nothing but sit in the staff room and edit and have conversations with KTs or students who want extra help at lunch it would still be an improvement.

[flotsam]

Newbies beware.

TROLL!

[venus]

If you mean me - I'm not a troll. If you look back a while in the general discussion forum, you'll see that I posted asking what sock and trolls were. Oh, I get it - I did that to cover my tracks....

Sigh.

BORING

Back to the topic in hand.... About why Koreans don't seem very capable

Okay, I'll take a guess that having relied on financial help so much from the US and Japan and having those countries done so much for them in terms of development, they have an overinflated and unrealistic view of themselves and their own capabilities. Kind of like 'Well we have this modern, developed country now, so we must be on par with the rest of the developed world...' But they haven't really had chance to have to do many things by themselves, thus have not matured...?

[flotsam]

Newbies beware.

Persistent TROLL!

[tomato]

Venus, your OP was the right message at the right time.

I have certification in kindergarten-elementary, certification in ESL, and 7 years of experience in Korea.
But apparently, even that is not enough.
I have been bounced around from one school to another about seven times. Each time I start a new job, I try to remember what all the previous directors harped on, and try not to make the same mistakes again.
But I lose every time: each time, the director finds something new to harp on.

Then I hit the Korean job site, and I see ads which say, "Teaching English in Korea is easy! No training necessary! No experience necessary! Our classes are small, and our students are all adorable little angels!"

So now I am wondering whether I am extremely stupid or whether those ads are dishonest.

[flotsam]

Et tu, Tomato?

[Satori]

[Demophobe]

Anybody?