|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
|
 Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: Kissinger: Iraq Military Win Impossible |
 |
|
The Prince of Darkness comes out against the war:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/19/AR2006111900287_pf.html
| Quote: |
LONDON -- Military victory is no longer possible in Iraq, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said in a television interview broadcast Sunday.
Kissinger presented a bleak vision of Iraq, saying the U.S. government must enter into dialogue with Iraq's regional neighbors _ including Iran _ if progress is to be made in the region.
"If you mean by 'military victory' an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible," he told the British Broadcasting Corp.
But Kissinger, an architect of the Vietnam war who has advised President Bush about Iraq, warned against a rapid withdrawal of coalition troops, saying it could destabilize Iraq's neighbors and cause a long-lasting conflict. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| The Prince of Darkness... |
I always knew you thought of him this way.
In any case, only someone of his stature could be the first one to say this -- just as only Nixon could go to China. Better sooner rather than later, I imagine.
Still, I would argue, or at least suggest, that I have suspected, public statements notwithstanding, the issue in the W. Bush Administration has been extraction from this tar-baby for quite a while now... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I suspect there are millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians who think the same thing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think they are thinking anything of the sort, gopher. I think they are thinking delaying tactics until they can regain control of Congress in 2008. Or any other version of events that will leave the West in control of the oil there, or at least with unfettered access.
Now, if Peak Oil is a reality, and they would know that given they are all from that industry, they may be looking for limited-time (5 - 10 years) scenarios knowing full well they really do have to change something with regard to energy.
Now, if you want to go the whole IGTG route, you could say they don't even care about that, and are just biding their time until they can get their oil-financed private armies strong enough to keep their little patches of Utopia together as Peak Oil and Global Warming send the rest of us into a global nightmare.
Interesting times, indeed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Kissinger: Iraq Military Win Impossible |
|
|
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
The Prince of Darkness comes out against the war:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/19/AR2006111900287_pf.html
| Quote: |
LONDON -- Military victory is no longer possible in Iraq, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said in a television interview broadcast Sunday.
Kissinger presented a bleak vision of Iraq, saying the U.S. government must enter into dialogue with Iraq's regional neighbors _ including Iran _ if progress is to be made in the region.
"If you mean by 'military victory' an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible," he told the British Broadcasting Corp.
But Kissinger, an architect of the Vietnam war who has advised President Bush about Iraq, warned against a rapid withdrawal of coalition troops, saying it could destabilize Iraq's neighbors and cause a long-lasting conflict. |
|
He brought up something incredibly critical that is never discussed. The U.S. government MUST enter into dialogue with neighors.. particularly IRAN if any progress in the region is going to be made.
SO SO SO SO TRUE. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:35 am Post subject: Re: Kissinger: Iraq Military Win Impossible |
|
|
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
The Prince of Darkness comes out against the war:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/19/AR2006111900287_pf.html
| Quote: |
LONDON -- Military victory is no longer possible in Iraq, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said in a television interview broadcast Sunday.
Kissinger presented a bleak vision of Iraq, saying the U.S. government must enter into dialogue with Iraq's regional neighbors _ including Iran _ if progress is to be made in the region.
"If you mean by 'military victory' an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible," he told the British Broadcasting Corp.
But Kissinger, an architect of the Vietnam war who has advised President Bush about Iraq, warned against a rapid withdrawal of coalition troops, saying it could destabilize Iraq's neighbors and cause a long-lasting conflict. |
|
He brought up something incredibly critical that is never discussed. The U.S. government MUST enter into dialogue with neighors.. particularly IRAN if any progress in the region is going to be made.
SO SO SO SO TRUE. |
The US has already been in negotiation with Iran behind closed doors. Ambassador Khalmey (sp?) has been talking with them on and off since late Spring. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Indeed, Kuros. The U.S. govt has had backchannels with Tehran since the Shah fell... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
corroonb
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Kissinger is still wanted for questioning in relation to war crimes. Officials in France, Brazil, Chile, Spain, and Argentina have sought him for questioning in connection with suspected war crimes such as Operation Condor, hindering his travel abroad.
Iran is in a very interesting position right now as is Syria. Both are part of the "Axis of Evil" and yet both could be instrumental in sorting out some of the problems in Iraq such as the Shiite militias. Oh the ironing, as Bart Simpson would say. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cwemory
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Location: Gunpo, Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| i'm a bit confused about this. according to Bob Woodward's State of Denial, wasn't Kissinger a big "invisible" influence on Bush's Iraq policy. Bush was consulting him several times a month wasn't he? does Kissinger think Bush didn't follow his advice? does Kissinger think his advice was wrong? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cwemory wrote: |
| according to Bob Woodward... |
Woodward deals in insider gossip more than the documentary record, the traditional depository of historical facts.
He makes an interesting read, but I would never quote him on anything substantial. He appears to have lied on the issue of his supposed death-bed conversation with Casey, for example. See Persico's book on that... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
corroonb
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| But Kissinger, an architect of the Vietnam war who has advised President Bush about Iraq, warned against a rapid withdrawal of coalition troops, saying it could destabilize Iraq's neighbors and cause a long-lasting conflict. |
This is the most interesting part of the article. Who are these 'neighbours' who might be destabilized? Iran? Syria? Israel? Turkey? Jordan? Saudi Arabia?
What kind of long-lasting conflict is he thinking of here? Isn't the present conflict 'long-lasting'?
Is the the goal of preventing regional conflict really the reason for not withdrawing? If it is impossible to win the war, what use will the foreign armies be there (British or Americans)? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| corroonb wrote: |
Kissinger is still wanted for questioning in relation to war crimes. Officials in France, Brazil, Chile, Spain, and Argentina have sought him for questioning in connection with suspected war crimes such as Operation Condor, hindering his travel abroad.
Iran is in a very interesting position right now as is Syria. Both are part of the "Axis of Evil" and yet both could be instrumental in sorting out some of the problems in Iraq such as the Shiite militias. Oh the ironing, as Bart Simpson would say. |
Can you explain operation condor for the unenlightend masses.
cbc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iran has invited the Iraqi and Syrian presidents to Tehran for a weekend summit with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to hash out ways to cooperate in curbing the runaway violence that has taken Iraq to the verge of civil war and threatens to spread through the region, four key lawmakers told The Associated Press on Monday.
Iraqi President Jalal Talabani has accepted the invitation and will fly to the Iranian capital Saturday, a close parliamentary associate said.
AP 11/20/2006
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15817109/
The OP is a Prophet, or Maybe Kissenger is?
Wonder why Turkey was not invited?
cbc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cbclark4 wrote: |
| Can you explain operation condor...? |
Latin American anticommunist dictators in Argentina, Brazil, and Chile hunted down and killed leftist dissidents and exiles in the 1970s, including, for example, the DINA ops run in Buenos Aires and Washington, D.C.
This kind of behavior has deep roots in Hispanic authoritarianist traditions and the Latin American military institutions' "antipolitical" politics. There are precedents at least as far back as the Independence era. Indeed, some precedents predate Plymouth Colony.
This notwithstanding, the United States govt, too, was involved in these ops, to one degree or another, probably communications support and intelligence liaison. The left indeed blames and castigates Washington and especially Kissinger for the whole thing, however, as if the U.S. govt pulled all of the generals' strings and cheered everytime someone was murdered...
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
The left indeed blames and castigates Washington and especially Kissinger for the whole thing, however, as if the U.S. govt pulled all of the generals' strings and cheered everytime someone was murdered...
|
Is not something then deeply amiss if the government is not in control of the military? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
