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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: US pagans fight grave symbol ban |
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US pagans fight grave symbol ban
The pentacle is an important Wicca spiritual symbol
Pagans in the US have filed a law suit against the government for the right to have their five-pointed symbol placed on gravestones in military cemeteries.
Widows of two Wiccan soldiers and two Wiccan congregations say the government is obstructing their constitutional right to freedom of religion.
About 1,800 people on active duty in the US armed services are Wiccan.
The Department of Veterans Affairs is reviewing the way it approves new emblems but has not spoken on the case.
Wicca, which originates in Europe, is inspired by ancient pre-Christian practices. Wiccans worship the Earth.
Wicca is recognised by the US military as an official religion but military veterans are not allowed to display the symbol on their graves.
Some 36 other religious symbols, including the Jewish star of David and the Buddhist wheel, are allowed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6146288.stm |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya, I saw this a few days ago. I thought it was interesting. I also liked the list of ones that are already allowed. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Some 36 other religious symbols, including the Jewish star of David and the Buddhist wheel, are allowed.
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Buddhist wheel? I'd be a little surprised if there were many dedicated Buddhists in the US military. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: US pagans fight grave symbol ban |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
US pagans fight grave symbol ban
The pentacle is an important Wicca spiritual symbol
Pagans in the US have filed a law suit against the government for the right to have their five-pointed symbol placed on gravestones in military cemeteries.
Widows of two Wiccan soldiers and two Wiccan congregations say the government is obstructing their constitutional right to freedom of religion.
About 1,800 people on active duty in the US armed services are Wiccan.
The Department of Veterans Affairs is reviewing the way it approves new emblems but has not spoken on the case.
Wicca, which originates in Europe, is inspired by ancient pre-Christian practices. Wiccans worship the Earth.
Wicca is recognised by the US military as an official religion but military veterans are not allowed to display the symbol on their graves.
Some 36 other religious symbols, including the Jewish star of David and the Buddhist wheel, are allowed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6146288.stm |
Shouldn't that be 1,800 buffy the vampire fans on active duty?
What symbol do atheist get buried under? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: US pagans fight grave symbol ban |
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| ED209 wrote: |
Shouldn't that be 1,800 buffy the vampire fans on active duty?
What symbol do atheist get buried under? |
I do believe recently the US military has recognized atheist. While I'm not sure about funeral services, it can now go on your dog tags as your "religion".
There was a case last year, I think, in the USA where a child of two pagan parents was going to catholic school. The couple got divorced. They agreed on custody rights etc. Nothing was contested. They went to the judge to get it rubber stamped. The judge took away custody of the child from both parents, feeling they were abusing the child by sending him for real religious instruction in a catholic school but then when he was with either pagan parents, he'd be exposed to this confusing lie. Outrageous. I'm not sure how the case turned out but I'm sure a heap o' lawyers got it struck down. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Ya, I saw this a few days ago. I thought it was interesting. I also liked the list of ones that are already allowed. |
Here's the list:
http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp
I haven't even heard of some of these. Like this one -
SEICHO-NO-IE
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Ya, I saw this a few days ago. I thought it was interesting. I also liked the list of ones that are already allowed. |
Here's the list:
http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp |
Well, here's the atheist one:
I now understand why there are no atheists in foxholes. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: Re: US pagans fight grave symbol ban |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| There was a case last year, I think, in the USA where a child of two pagan parents was going to catholic school. The couple got divorced. They agreed on custody rights etc. Nothing was contested. They went to the judge to get it rubber stamped. The judge took away custody of the child from both parents, feeling they were abusing the child by sending him for real religious instruction in a catholic school but then when he was with either pagan parents, he'd be exposed to this confusing lie. Outrageous. I'm not sure how the case turned out but I'm sure a heap o' lawyers got it struck down. |
Jones vs Jones
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| In early 2004, Marion County Superior Court Chief Judge Cale J. Bradford granted a divorce to Thomas E. Jones Jr. and Tammie U. Bristol. The order directed the Indianapolis residents "to take such steps as are needed to shelter [the child] from involvement and observation of these non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals." |
Don't think the judge took away custody rights, he tried to write into the custody agreement that neither part would expose the child to Wiccan beliefs. He was an idiot and it was overturned a year later.
Now what happened to that British Naval officer who was granted permission to worship Satan on one of HMSs? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: Re: US pagans fight grave symbol ban |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| There was a case last year, I think, in the USA where a child of two pagan parents was going to catholic school. The couple got divorced. They agreed on custody rights etc. Nothing was contested. They went to the judge to get it rubber stamped. The judge took away custody of the child from both parents, feeling they were abusing the child by sending him for real religious instruction in a catholic school but then when he was with either pagan parents, he'd be exposed to this confusing lie. Outrageous. I'm not sure how the case turned out but I'm sure a heap o' lawyers got it struck down. |
Jones vs Jones
| Quote: |
| In early 2004, Marion County Superior Court Chief Judge Cale J. Bradford granted a divorce to Thomas E. Jones Jr. and Tammie U. Bristol. The order directed the Indianapolis residents "to take such steps as are needed to shelter [the child] from involvement and observation of these non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals." |
Don't think the judge took away custody rights, he tried to write into the custody agreement that neither part would expose the child to Wiccan beliefs. He was an idiot and it was overturned a year later.
Now what happened to that British Naval officer who was granted permission to worship Satan on one of HMSs? |
Ah thank you. I was too lazy to google for it.
A good letter on the "there are no atheists in foxholes" concept:
http://penn.freefm.com/pages/27696.php
(I think the guy who wrote the letter was the first guy to get "atheist" on his dog tags.)
Atheists also don't swear on the bible in court cases but affirm some kind of oath. In jury trials, many lawyers prefer to have the witness affirm the oath in the judge's chambers so as not to bias a jury who might not trust an atheist. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Ya, I saw this a few days ago. I thought it was interesting. I also liked the list of ones that are already allowed. |
Here's the list:
http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp |
Well, here's the atheist one:
I now understand why there are no atheists in foxholes. |
Orignally, they wanted it to be a representation of the 35 other symbols with a big X hetched across each of them, but that plan was scrapped because of cost concerns. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I like how the Christian Scientist one is copyrighted. I did a bit of googling on this. I guess they're like Scientologists in that they want to keep doctrine from a single source. If it doesn't have the church logo on it, it's satanic or something. |
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Delirium's Brother
Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: Out in that field with Rumi, waiting for you to join us!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:31 am Post subject: |
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There's one for Sufis....
I'm having trouble coming to terms with this. A Sufi serving in any nation's military? Maybe as a chaplain!? No, still I just don't see it. Strange! Maybe a conversion to Sufism in later life, I guess.
Last edited by Delirium's Brother on Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Porter_Goss
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Location: The Wrong Side of Right
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Alias wrote: |
Buddhist wheel? I'd be a little surprised if there were many dedicated Buddhists in the US military. |
Enough to warrant a Chaplain;
http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=14387
In the Marine Corps, they actually called us religious NA guys "heathens." I imagine my headstone would just be a simple rectangle. |
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