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CBP
Joined: 15 May 2006
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: Korean Kids - Behavior |
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I've taught young children before and have always enjoyed the various challenges of teaching them, but now that I'm in Korea, I'm a bit overwhelmed with how unruly the Korean kids can be. I only have two classes with the little ones (ages seven-eight), but wow ... the little buggers wear me down. I like my school, but they impose no discipline rules. The kids run and scream and slam doors. If the teachers are bothered by it, they close the door to the teacher's room. But no one says anything to the kids. The walls and desks are filthy and covered in pencil marks. Is this standard fare for Korea?
Thanks!  |
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wormholes101
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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There does seem to be a distinct lack of direction when it comes to guidelines for appropriate behaviour within the school grounds (at least in my Korean elementary school).
This is the responsibility of the Principal to determine "general school rules". Unfortunately, the principals that I have approached for assistance with a particular disciplinary matter usually don't get like to get involved. Whether this is endemic to the Korean educational facilities, I dont know.
Would post more on this but in a bit of a hurry... |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| wormholes101 wrote: |
There does seem to be a distinct lack of direction when it comes to guidelines for appropriate behaviour within the school grounds (at least in my Korean elementary school).
This is the responsibility of the Principal to determine "general school rules". Unfortunately, the principals that I have approached for assistance with a particular disciplinary matter usually don't get like to get involved. Whether this is endemic to the Korean educational facilities, I dont know.
Would post more on this but in a bit of a hurry... |
The Principal in Korea is more of a manager than what we know of as a principal.
I haven't figured out exact rules and discipline yet, even though I have been here over a year. Some things are just totally ignored, some things they come down on hard. I believe the public schools here are not consistent enough with many things. Most of their behaviour is the annoying kind of bad, not the North American I will kick your ass because I forgot my gun at home kind of behaviour though 
Culturally, they let kids do things I would never have thought of doing back home, like interrupting two teachers talking seriously. But, that is a cultural thing, just different. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| That's normal for hogwans. If you can stand it for year you can always move on to high school where you have the reverse problem and have to wake up a couple of kids two or three times almost every class. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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The Principal in Korea is more of a manager than what we know of as a principal.
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Well, it's up to the manager to make and enforce the rules, is it not? Would you expect the workers or the students themselves to do it?  |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I, like most of the other teachers at my school, draw the line between lesson time and free time. When I'm not instructing them I don't care if they want to run around dancing and screaming, climb on things, wrestle, hit, slap, poke, and kick each other, pull each other's hair, throw things around, and throw tantrums. Once I start teaching that sort of behaviour is expected to stop, and for the most part they're conditioned to sit quitely in their desks - though there is the odd class like the one I had this morning where I had to keep a few students late until they finished their handouts, assign the one whose phone I confiscated lines to write, and have a little talk with another who's really smart and can do a lot better than she did today. Quite frankly that sort of class is still more fun to teach than the group of dead-beats I had next who were too quite to participate at more than 25 decibles. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| spliff wrote: |
| Quote: |
The Principal in Korea is more of a manager than what we know of as a principal.
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Well, it's up to the manager to make and enforce the rules, is it not? Would you expect the workers or the students themselves to do it? |
What the hell is the rolling eyes for? A principal here basically handles money and external issues, very little internal issues. They are out on business trips more often than not. It's the teachers, head teacher, and somewhat the vice principal that deal with all the day to day internal workings of the school, such as any rules. Nor is any child ever sent to the principal, ever! Even the vice principal has very little to do with the children or parents. It's mostly up to the teachers. Principals back home get involved in assemblies, productions, educational development meetings, etc. Not here.
A manager does not go around enforcing anything. They handle bigger things and a lot of the financial dealings within their stores. A manager has department heads to handle that stuff. The teachers (ie workers) and students DO DO IT THEMSELVES HERE, including cleaning schedules, testing, etc! |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| spliff wrote: |
| Quote: |
The Principal in Korea is more of a manager than what we know of as a principal.
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Well, it's up to the manager to make and enforce the rules, is it not? Would you expect the workers or the students themselves to do it? |
What the hell is the rolling eyes for? A principal here basically handles money and external issues, very little internal issues. They are out on business trips more often than not. It's the teachers, head teacher, and somewhat the vice principal that deal with all the day to day internal workings of the school, such as any rules. Nor is any child ever sent to the principal, ever! Even the vice principal has very little to do with the children or parents. It's mostly up to the teachers. Principals back home get involved in assemblies, productions, educational development meetings, etc. Not here.
A manager does not go around enforcing anything. They handle bigger things and a lot of the financial dealings within their stores. A manager has department heads to handle that stuff. The teachers (ie workers) and students DO DO IT THEMSELVES HERE, including cleaning schedules, testing, etc! |
I think you and the other poster may be a bit confused between gyo-chang sungsaengnim and wongjongnim. In either case, it really depends on the school and its size. Usually the former has nothing to do with enforcing rules (that falls mostly on the dam-eam sungsaengnim) and the latter are more concerned about imploding any rules than enforcing them, except when it comes to teacher conduct. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
I think you and the other poster may be a bit confused between gyo-chang sungsaengnim and wongjongnim. In either case, it really depends on the school and its size. Usually the former has nothing to do with enforcing rules (that falls mostly on the dam-eam sungsaengnim) and the latter are more concerned about imploding any rules than enforcing them, except when it comes to teacher conduct. |
Ya, I am defnitely not talking about a wongjongnim. I am talking about a principal (which a wongjongnim is definitely not, they are just managers), or in Korean, a gyojang seonseangnim in a PUBLIC school  |
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wormholes101
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
I am talking about a principal... a gyojang seonseangnim in a PUBLIC school |
This is also what I'm talking about...
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| I, like most of the other teachers at my school, draw the line between lesson time and free time. When I'm not instructing them I don't care if they want to run around dancing and screaming, climb on things, wrestle, hit, slap, poke, and kick each other, pull each other's hair, throw things around, and throw tantrums. |
Personally, I can't agree with you on this one. I think that kids should be encouraged to respect school property, be clean and tidy, put their trash in the garbage can, respect other student's property and personal/physical space. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| wormholes101 wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
I am talking about a principal... a gyojang seonseangnim in a PUBLIC school |
This is also what I'm talking about... |
I was mostly agreeing with what you said (possibly all, I can't remember). It was spliff I wrote that for. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="wormholes101"]
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| I, like most of the other teachers at my school, draw the line between lesson time and free time. When I'm not instructing them I don't care if they want to run around dancing and screaming, climb on things, wrestle, hit, slap, poke, and kick each other, pull each other's hair, throw things around, and throw tantrums. |
Personally, I can't agree with you on this one. I think that kids should be encouraged to respect school property, be clean and tidy, put their trash in the garbage can, respect other student's property and personal/physical space. |
I wouldn't go along with 'no rules' outside class, time but there are very different cultural norms here. In terms of respecting property and the school I agree to a point. For instance, I once caught two girls writing in the dust on the computer teachers car (I couldn't understand what they had written) and made them wipe if off. Similarly I've made students put litter in the garbage when I've seen them discard it right in front of me. As for being clean and tidy, that's not my job, apart from telling a few students to go wash their hands when they've got into something, and as far as I'm concerned uniform, earrings, etc., are the homeroom teachers' responsibility so long as it's not something that's not causing a distraction.
As for ideas like 'personal space', your ideas don't apply here. North Americans and northern Europeans think in terms of 'my' whereas Koreans think in terms of 'uri'. I'd stop older students from being agressive with younger students (which they rarely ever are) but Koreans are used to seeing themselves having space in common with peers of the same sex and there's no point in trying to stop them from being Koreans. |
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Peter Jackson
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:11 am Post subject: Korea |
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| Quote: |
| This is the responsibility of the Principal to determine "general school rules". Unfortunately, the principals that I have approached for assistance with a particular disciplinary matter usually don't get like to get involved. Whether this is endemic to the Korean educational facilities, I dont know. |
Actually the VP should be the guy who handles these things. He or she does in most western schools I know of...
I always remember the principal as the guy you NEVER saw unless you were in serious trouble! He or she was always too busy with finances ,etc.
The vice-principal was the dude with the iron rod and I saw him plently. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Just winding you up...the VP is in charge of rules and enforcement and the individual homeroom teachers. |
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wormholes101
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| I was mostly agreeing with what you said (possibly all, I can't remember). It was spliff I wrote that for. |
I know. Just making the point that I was also talking about Principal and VP of Public schools; not hagwons. Trying to establish topic.
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| Peter Jackson wrote: |
| Actually the VP should be the guy who handles these things. He or she does in most western schools I know of.... |
Sure, I agree; I guess my post is a bit ambigious. The point that I'm to make is about who creates general school rules such as 'Don't run in the corridors' or "This area of the school is out of bounds". I dunno.. are these sorts of rules made by the VP or the P? I would have thought they were made by the P and enfored by the teachers with the back up of the VP. Anyway, what I'm saying is that I think there is a lack of direction in this matter (in some respects in the schools I've worked at) and the VP and P don't seem to want to get engaged in these matters.
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| As for ideas like 'personal space', your ideas don't apply here.... but Koreans are used to seeing themselves having space in common with peers of the same sex and there's no point in trying to stop them from being Koreans. |
Well, have to say your argument is rather circular but anyway... Of course, I understand that there is a difference between personal space in my culture to Korea's and I do see your point.
What do you think about ddong-chims? (between students I mean)
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| I, like most of the other teachers at my school, draw the line between lesson time and free time. When I'm not instructing them I don't care if they want to run around dancing and screaming, climb on things, wrestle, hit, slap, poke, and kick each other, pull each other's hair, throw things around, and throw tantrums. |
Look, I'm not judging you here but I wouldn't certainly wouldn't stand for any of that in my classroom. A lot of the other stuff, I don't think is accepatble behaviour even in the playground; certainly the slapping and hitting and puling hair.
Maybe you're using creative license in your post? |
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