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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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First of all, this did not appear to be an arrest. Just a suspect defying a police order to leave the library after he declined/refused to produce his ID to the student security patrol -- and I wonder what, exactly, he said to the student security patrol originally, why they called actual officers in to deal with him, although I can imagine.
Regardless, this suspect was off-base. If the police ask you to stand up, you stand up. If they ask you to leave, you leave. If you defy them, they will force you to submit. And as this suspect learned, police have various levels of force that they are trained and authorized to apply in such cases of noncompliance as this.
If you have a case to make and want to argue, the police are not the ones to argue with. Go with them peacefully. Then argue with the judge and sue everybody you want later. But when the police are telling you "stand up" and "let's go," this is not the time to argue.
I saw nothing inappropriate here. The "police brutality" charge is nonsense.
Also...
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| As Tabatabainejad was being dragged through the room by two officers, he repeated in a strained scream, "I'm not fighting you" and "I said I would leave." |
He may have been saying this; but he did not appear to be doing it. And this sounds exactly like multiple incidents in which I myself have seen...
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According to a UCPD press release, Tabatabainejad went limp and refused to exit as the officers attempted to escort him out. The release also stated Tabatabainejad "encouraged library patrons to join his resistance." At this point, the officers "deemed it necessary to use the Taser in a "drive stun' capacity."
"He wasn't cooperative; he wouldn't identify himself. He resisted the officers," Young said. |
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corroonb
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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So anyone else that is peacefully resisting authority is asking to be tazered? Wow.
Make sure you don't forget your ID card or you could get 'Tased'.
They could have used 'reasonable' force. A taser on an unarmed and restrained suspect is far from reasonable. The could have dragged him out instead they reverted to obvious abuse of the 'suspect' because their fragile sense of authority was upset by a rebellious college kid. They could have shot him too or the taser could have killed him if he had a heart problem.
Bad-boys, bad-boys, watcha gonna do, watcha gonna do when they come for you.
Don't the LAPD deserve the benefit of the doubt after their fine record of observing human rights?
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| stunned at least four times with a Taser |
= police brutality
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| Tabatabainejad was also stunned with the Taser when he was already handcuffed, said Carlos Zaragoza, a third-year English and history student who witnessed the incident. |
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| But according to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so. |
All from the linked article.
Last edited by corroonb on Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:21 am; edited 4 times in total |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
First of all, this did not appear to be an arrest. Just a suspect defying a police order to leave the library after he declined/refused to produce his ID to the student security patrol -- and I wonder what, exactly, he said to the student security patrol originally, why they called actual officers in to deal with him, although I can imagine.
Regardless, this suspect was off-base. If the police ask you to stand up, you stand up. If they ask you to leave, you leave. If you defy them, they will force you to submit. And as this suspect learned, police have various levels of force that they are trained and authorized to apply in such cases of noncompliance as this.
If you have a case to make and want to argue, the police are not the ones to argue with. Go with them peacefully. Then argue with the judge and sue everybody you want later. But when the police are telling you "stand up" and "let's go," this is not the time to argue.
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ok, I agree.
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I saw nothing inappropriate here. The "police brutality" charge is nonsense.
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I suggest reading it again, especially the part where he was tasered after being handcuffed.
This says it all
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| During the altercation between Tabatabainejad and the officers, bystanders can be heard in the video repeatedly asking the officers to stop and requesting their names and identification numbers. The video showed one officer responding to a student by threatening that the student would "get Tased too." At this point, the officer was still holding a Taser. |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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When he had no ID card so asked to leave, he should have left and returned with his card.
No bull-crap and argument.
The dude was just asking for trouble. Seem to me like a set up to provoke the police to make millions. Screaming about the Patriot Act, etc.
Lucky he didn't get a bullet in his thick skull. |
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corroonb
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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I suggest you read the article or watch the video before posting. He couldn't stand because they had tasered him and this weakens and mabye paralyzes the victim's body. He was obviously of Muslim descent and this is apparently why they thought he might be armed and why he mentioned the Patriot Act.
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| Seem to me like a set up to provoke the police to make millions. |
Neither he or his family have given any interviews or sought any publicity so that theory is 'bull-crap. No mention of a law-suit anywhere either.
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| Lucky he didn't get a bullet in his thick skull. |
Really. Wow
Last edited by corroonb on Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| corroonb wrote: |
I suggest you read the article or watch the video before posting. He couldn't stand because they had tasered him and this weakens and mabye paralyzes the victim's body. He was obviously of Muslim descent and this is apparently why they thought he might be armed and why he mentioned the Patriot Act.
Neither he or his family have given any interviews or sought any publicity so that theory is 'bull'.
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| Lucky he didn't get a bullet in his thick skull. |
Really. Wow |
It paralyzed his body but not his big mouth though. LOL 
I have no symphathy for the idiot who refuses to comply with police command to leave the premises. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ChuckECheese wrote: |
Lucky he didn't get a bullet in his thick skull. |
No doubt. Going to the UCLA library without an ID card. Sheesh. At least send him to Gitmo for a couple of years. |
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corroonb
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Again have you read anything in that article? He was tasered 4 or 5 times even while hand-cuffed. 
I can't believe that someone could think that's reasonable force.
I think if some Korean cop did this to you because you forgot your ARC, you'd be in here bitchin and whining about fascist Korean pigs and everyone would be showing you sympathy.
If you're trolling, then its in very bad taste. |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| corroonb wrote: |
Again have you read anything in that article? He was tasered 4 or 5 times even while hand-cuffed.
I can't believe that someone could think that's reasonable force.
I think if some Korean cop did this to you because you forgot your ARC, you'd be in here *beep* and whining about fascist Korean pigs and everyone would be showing you sympathy.
If you're trolling, then its in very bad taste. |
Don't be a flower child. There's difference between not having ID on you on the public street and private place where they require proper ID.
If you do not have the proof of membership (ID) and they ask you to leave. You silently comply and leave the private premises. No argument and bull-crap.
All you have to do is comply with their (police) command. They're there for purpose to enforce the law. They don't give a flying fvck what your excuse is if you have or are violating the public rules and regulations. You can take the argument to the court as some one has mentioned earlier.
And if I'm ever stopped by K-police and K-immigration and not have my ARC on my possession, it's my fault for forgetting to carry it with me. So I would comply with their command and eventually prove that it was just an innocent mistake. I would not be confrontational with any law enforcement people. If you do, all you're going to get is more trouble and probably ass beating like this dude on the video. |
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corroonb
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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According to witnesses, he was going to leave when they grabbed him. He yelled and protested and they tasered him. Yea, he really deserved to be tasered 5 times for not going quicker. 
Okkaaayy!
It wasn't what the cops did, it was the way they did it. They should just have dragged him outside if he was being a disturbance, they did NOT have to repeatedly taser him for shouting.
Read the article and watch the film.
Don't be a defender of abusive authority, that's what Quislings were.
Last edited by corroonb on Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:52 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ChuckECheese wrote: |
| corroonb wrote: |
Again have you read anything in that article? He was tasered 4 or 5 times even while hand-cuffed.
I can't believe that someone could think that's reasonable force.
I think if some Korean cop did this to you because you forgot your ARC, you'd be in here *beep* and whining about fascist Korean pigs and everyone would be showing you sympathy.
If you're trolling, then its in very bad taste. |
Don't be a flower child. There's difference between not having ID on you on the public street and private place where they require proper ID.
If you do not have the proof of membership (ID) and they ask you to leave. You silently comply and leave the private premises. No argument and bull-crap.
All you have to do is comply with their (police) command. They're there for purpose to enforce the law. They don't give a flying fvck what your excuse is if you have or are violating the public rules and regulations. You can take the argument to the court as some one has mentioned earlier.
And if I'm ever stopped by K-police and K-immigration and not have my ARC on my possession, it's my fault for forgetting to carry it with me. So I would comply with their command and eventually prove that it was just an innocent mistake. I would not be confrontational with any law enforcement people. If you do, all you're going to get is more trouble and probably ass beating like this dude on the video. |
Everything you said is correct. But you should still be appalled by this treatment. If stuff like this isn't stopped immediately, what happens when they start doing this stuff for other relatively small things and then start to make mistakes or act too quickly. Cops have a very difficult and strict code of ethics. It's makes their jobs harder, but to continue to call ourselves free, they must be adhered to. This went way beyond what was needed. Hopefully no racism, but hard to say from the information provided. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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I was very surprised the students didn't riot. Compliance with police is not mandatory. However forced can be used to subdue a suspect. The individual was trespassing, had been asked to leave. The taser is a lazy way to subdue a trespasser. Shackle (Hog Tie) and carry is the method I prefer. It is even more painful than the taser but it doesn't look as dramatic on TV.
Post taser compliance is very difficult, muscles may not respond, spasms may occur, shock can set in.
cbc |
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Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| corroonb wrote: |
According to witnesses, he was going to leave when they grabbed him. He yelled and protested and they tasered him. Yea, he really deserved to be tasered 5 times for not going quicker. Rolling Eyes
Okkaaayy!
It wasn't what the cops did, it was the way they did it. They should just have dragged him outside if he was being a disturbance, they did NOT have to repeatedly taser him for shouting.
Read the article and watch the film.
Don't be a defender of abusive authority, that's what Quislings were. |
Which witnesses? What did they say, and what did they see? Who grabbed him? The security or the police? If he idiot started to leave only when the police arrived, then naturally they would want to talk to him to find out why they had to go there.
There are a multitude of things that we don't know about what happened here. While I definitely agree that tasering was over the top (I would probably have put him in a strangle hold to get him to stand up and use what we called a "come-along hold" to get him out), I am not going to make any judgement without knowing more. Witnesses can also lie about police behaviour.
Don't make hasty judgements without more complete information. |
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corroonb
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| According to a UCPD press release, Tabatabainejad went limp and refused to exit as the officers attempted to escort him out. |
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| Neither the video footage nor eyewitness accounts of the events confirmed that Tabatabainejad encouraged resistance, and he repeatedly told the officers he was not fighting and would leave. |
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| Tabatabainejad was walking with his backpack toward the door when he was approached by two UCPD officers, one of whom grabbed the student's arm. In response, Tabatabainejad yelled at the officers to "get off me." Following this demand, Tabatabainejad was stunned with a Taser. |
With reports from Jennifer Mishory, Julia Erlandson and Lisa Connolly, Bruin senior staff. |
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