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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: Trash talk and current events |
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So on the Iran/Al-Qaeda thread Nambucavemen stated the following:
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| For quite awhile the Current Events forum has been more like the trash talk forum. |
My first question is: quite awhile? When HASN'T it been? 
Seriously though, OTOH speaks for me when he responded:
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With all due respect to the mods, I want to say here that I not particularly offended by the so-called "personal attacks", and frankly I don't get the impression that many of the people supposedly being attacked are offended either. They all seem to be coming back, day in and day out, for more of the same.
This is a political discussion board, and as everyone who has ever lived in a democracy knows, political debate sometimes gets rather heated. I don't see much personal attack in terms of referencing peoples private lives or other irrelevant factors; rather the "attacks"(if that's really the right word) seem to stem largely from what people have actually written. |
That sums it up for me.
Nambu came back with the following:
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I would give specific examples, however I don't want to single out any one person. My feeling is the use of idiot is pretty inflammatory. Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you have in insult them.
One of the problems I have is with the way people tend to think the rules don't apply to them. Maybe you don't feel offended, but I'm sure others do. |
That is true. I do think calling someone an idiot is a bit over the top. While I don't think I've called someone an idiot on this board, I am fully aware that I've implied it or used a similar word. That being said, this isn't an academic setting. Furthermore, it seems most of the time insults are hurled, at least people remain on topic and have a counter-argument. It isn't ideal, but it is better than shouting slogans at one another. If you think this board is bad, I suggest you read news message boards and other sites. This place is somewhat civil by internet standards.
So, what do you all think? I wouldn't be surprised that a person like Mith doesn't post on this board that frequently because of the insults. Then again, he is a busy man with many interests, so I could be 100% wrong.
Like I said, I think it isn't so bad. Some threads are 95% trash but I just ignore them and don't post on them. On the other hand, there are some threads that are 95% insightful and informative. The one on the proposed draft law comes to mind. Hard for me to contribute to those too.  |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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I tend for the tempting topics. I also try to keep civil. I do jab at one or two topics. I don't really know any of the posters well enough to insult. I think sometimes people want to respond on the boards here but don't necessarily want to put lots of thought in either, and I think that's ok because the heavies will pick up the slack.
As far as insults go, people shouldn't take them seriously, actually none of this stuff should be taken seriously. Leave the seriousness for something that you can actually have an impact on.
cbc |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
As far as insults go, people shouldn't take them seriously, actually none of this stuff should be taken seriously. Leave the seriousness for something that you can actually have an impact on.
cbc |
well-said.
And btw, I appreciate your civil behavior. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| That sums it up for me. |
I agreed with On the Other Hand's views here, too, particularly his second paragraph in the excerpt you selected, above. Thanks for bringing this issue center-stage, Bucheon. |
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Nambucaveman
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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I think OTOH's response was genuine. Unfortunately he removed it.
Yes, I'm sure that this board is not as bad as others. Again as I pointed out the insults are unnecessary. I also pointed out that this is first and foremost a board for native speakers as well as the fact that the current events forum is just that, not a political board.
If you look carefully, you'll notice those who have gone over the top have been taking a vacation from the board. My point is just because you disagree with someone or dislike them doesn't mean you should trash talk and be rude to them.
As stated in the TOS, we encourage self policing. If you see something that you think is offensive, then use the report post button and a mod will take a look at it.
NC |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| If you see something that you think is offensive, then use the report post button and a mod will take a look at it. |
Doesn't seem to work these days ... maybe it's broken? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think OTOH's response was genuine. Unfortunately he removed it.
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Believe it or not, I accidently sent it to myself the first time I tried to PM it to Nambu. I had deleted it because I thought it could be construed as an attack on the mods. However, Nambe said in her own PM that it wasn't. So, for the sake of the record, here it is, from the Iran/AQ thread...
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My feeling is the use of idiot is pretty inflammatory.
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Well, I guess everyone has their own standard about what consitutes incivility. On this very page, one of the posters who complained about the lack of civility finished his post with this...
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BTW having a 4 page argument about a worthless article with no sources whatsoever that is the very epitome of amateur speculation is very childish and absurd.
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Okay, so he's saying that everyone who participted in this discussion(myself included) was "childish and absurd". Is that showing a lot of civility? I can certainly think of more civil ways to express oneself. And what was your response to this?
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I think corroonb has a good point and I'd like to take a second to respond.
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Okay. So maybe you weren't endorsing that particular sentence, but your silence about it does illustrate the problems inherent in the kind of "civility campaign" that you are trying to launch here.
And I don't say this out of any sympathy for one side or the other. As you can probably guess from my comments on this thread, I agree with Corroonb about the incredibly weak quality of the opening article. I'm not sure that I'd endorse the idea that eveyone who commented on it is "childish and absurd", though. |
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Nambucaveman
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| red dog wrote: |
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| If you see something that you think is offensive, then use the report post button and a mod will take a look at it. |
Doesn't seem to work these days ... maybe it's broken? |
Funny, I just tested it. It works fine.
NC |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Nambucaveman wrote: |
| ...the current events forum is just that, not a political board. |
You have said this twice now.
My understanding is that this is a political board. It is a board established "for politics/current events/news discussion." Nearly every thread I see here (barring the religious ones that used to come our way from time to time) relate to the stated purpose of this board.
With all due respect, and I offer this constructively, if the mods do not like political discussions or, more probably, all of the posters' poltics, then perhaps the mods should modify or discontinue the current events forum entirely.
| Nambucaveman wrote: |
| My point is just because you disagree with someone or dislike them doesn't mean you should trash talk and be rude to them. |
I wholly agree with this. However, your "trash talk" and "rudeness" require some clarification.
You seem to object to "dismissing others' views" as "rude." But you had no sympathy when I mentioned that calling someone a "liar" and/or a "hypocrite" was inflammatory -- although I bet you and everybody else would think it over before saying it to someone you were speaking to in person. You also seem to take no offense to condescending phrases like "Look it up, i don't have the time to educate you." But you have reacted to others' reactions to such phrases.
Moreover, one anonymous poster, on another thread, who had ironically once addressed an OP to "this moron-infested forum," agreed that people are rude and mean on this forum. You seconded his or her remarks. But then, less than twenty-four hours later, on another thread, this very same poster wrote (to yet another poster): "What the hell are you doing? All of those sentence mean nothing when taken out of context. The intellectual dishonesty needed for the crap you just pulled is appaling...Explain yourself and don't just take what I said out of context and then put a stupid emoticon. You post is useless and if you would like me to explain things more, you need to make an argument."
You do not see this as "rude"? Because I am fairly certain this passes the reasonable-person-would-see-this-as-rude test. And I would like to see all of this rudeness moderated, across the board.
In any case, I owe you an apology for an earlier criticism that might have offended you. You have my apology. And please let's continue this dialog...
Last edited by Gopher on Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:40 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Nambucaveman wrote: |
| red dog wrote: |
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| If you see something that you think is offensive, then use the report post button and a mod will take a look at it. |
Doesn't seem to work these days ... maybe it's broken? |
Funny, I just tested it. It works fine.
NC |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: ... |
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| Okay. So maybe you weren't endorsing that particular sentence, but your silence about it does illustrate the problems inherent in the kind of "civility campaign" that you are trying to launch here. |
I agree.
Racism and bigotry ought not be tolerated. However, making rules about rudeness is both frought wth potential bias and taking things a bit too far.
After all, we live in a world where members of one to-remain-anonymous administration once described the administration of another country "cheese-eating surrender monkeys". It essentially went unchallenged.
Comparatively, Mel Gibson and the Richards guy from Seinfeld were roundly condemned for crossing the line.
And I do think CE participants police themselves. I've reported a couple of posts that were subsequently removed because they were similar to Gibson/Richards statements. Everyone should be free to consult a mod if they think someone has gone too far, but I think participants should open to criticism. It's just a part of making politically-charged statements.
How different is it to call someone an idiot as opposed to politely stating that their puerile argument is ill-informed? I'd personally get more steamed if someone called me a Republican than if someone called me a moron.
As such, what about labeling? What about telling someone they have no business commenting on any given issue?
Civility becomes a line seemingly drawn in the sand.
I, for one, prefer a rough free speech over polite censorship.
On the other hand, I do appreciate your keeping threads together and locking ones that start the same topic over. This consolidaton is good.
Thanks for listening. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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You do not see this as "rude"? Because I am fairly certain this passes the reasonable-person-would-see-this-as-rude test. And I would like to see all of this rudeness moderated, across the board.
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I didn't read the post you're referring to, but good point. And good point about the mods having punished people for reacting to posts that any reasonable person would see as rude. Unfortunately there've been a few cases recently where the mods just sat back and allowed idiots (and yes, they deserve to be called that based on their behaviour) to sabotage what could have been intelligent, civil discussions. We need mods to step in with more than just vague admonitions about civility, especially when ther own conduct has been anything but civil. |
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Nambucaveman
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that Gopher. I agree with what you saying basically is that what is or isn't rude is kind of arbitrary. At times things have become quiet in the current events forum, even with no intervention.
The rest of my comments are random thoughts not attributed to any one user:
For obvious reason I don't air my political views in this forum. I agree there are put off comments from lots of people and they very in severity from very minor to pretty ugly. I'd rather see people do more self policing, where you guys keep each other in check. I think people should be more aware of stuff that is hurtful. Let's face it, life is too short to be telling everyone off.
I acknowledge this is a political board, but it's also a bridge between here and home for some people. It's interesting to find article and share with other people with what's happening places. The problem is that the forums have turned into a propaganda machine with people trying to push their views as much as they can. It's no wonder there's so many people that avoid this forum. I'll tell you before I became a mod I read this forum rarely, posted almost never. I have no problem with discussion, but when it's people just head on attacking people then it gets too much.
Another problem is that a few people who post 3 or 4 articles in a row and it shoves everything else down to the bottom of the page or even the next page. I've addressed this before individually, but this isn't a contest to see who can post the most articles in a day.
Not that I'm trying to suck up to him/her, but I sent a private pm complimenting OTOH for his/her (I'm not sure which) response to my post and encouraged him/her to repost it.
Here's a suggestion, let's post some more lighthearted funny stuff we can all laugh at together (I know Yahoo has a section with stories like that). I am willing to contribute as well.
NC |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Nambucaveman wrote: |
Another problem is that a few people who post 3 or 4 articles in a row and it shoves everything else down to the bottom of the page or even the next page. I've addressed this before individually, but this isn't a contest to see who can post the most articles in a day.
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Yes, this annoys me. I'm glad it has been cut down recently, so thanks for that. |
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Nambucaveman
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| red dog wrote: |
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You do not see this as "rude"? Because I am fairly certain this passes the reasonable-person-would-see-this-as-rude test. And I would like to see all of this rudeness moderated, across the board.
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I didn't read the post you're referring to, but good point. And good point about the mods having punished people for reacting to posts that any reasonable person would see as rude. Unfortunately there've been a few cases recently where the mods just sat back and allowed idiots (and yes, they deserve to be called that based on their behaviour) to sabotage what could have been intelligent, civil discussions. We need mods to step in with more than just vague admonitions about civility, especially when ther own conduct has been anything but civil. |
Actually you don't know what goes on behind the scenes or who gets what punishment because we don't discuss those types of things. The only way to tell is if someone "disappears" for awhile. If your talking about someone having a sock, then show me proof and I'll act on it.
NC |
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