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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: Gore: Iraq war worst mistake in USA history |
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I'm tempted to agree...
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2006/12/gore_to_bush_on.html
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Gore to Bush on Iraq: It's Not About You
December 06, 2006 7:34 AM
ABC News� Teddy Davis Reports: Calling the Iraq war "the worst strategic mistake in the entire history of the United States" and "worse than a civil war," former Vice President Gore urged President Bush to find a way to get U.S. troops out of Iraq "as quickly as possible without making the situation worse" while appearing this morning on NBC�s "Today."
"I would urge the President to try to separate out the personal issues of being blamed in history for his mistake and instead recognizing that it is not about him. It�s about our country," Gore said in an interview with NBC�s Matt Lauer.
When asked if he would pull U.S. troops out of Iraq even it was seen as a defeat for the U.S., Gore dodged the question, saying if he were president, he would have "the full flow of information" and he would be able to test these ideas. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Probably true. Perhaps Iraq is our Sicilian expedition.
Last edited by Gopher on Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Serious blunder? No question. "worse than a civil war"? Too soon to tell. The various States' decisions to secede brought war and destruction to their states. Iraq hasn't done that yet. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Gore wrote: |
| I would urge the President to try to separate out the personal issues of being blamed in history for his mistake and instead recognizing that it is not about him. It�s about our country. |
By the way, this kind of language remains implicitly blame-centered and W. Bush-centered.
While W. Bush is ultimately the one to blame for post-9/11 U.S.-Iraq policies, Gore's bound-to-be-popular way of phrasing his critique is still not what the country needs at this moment.
If Gore truly wanted to make the debate "about our country," and I believe he does, at least for the most part, he needs to phrase his suggestions a little differently than this. It is not W. Bush's personal vanity against the rest of the country.
The Iraq Report seems to emphasize bipartisan cooperation and reduced domestic infighting with respect to the way we go about withdrawing from the Iraqi War. I suggest we make exaggerated gestures to do just that... |
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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Serious blunder? No question. "worse than a civil war"? Too soon to tell. The various States' decisions to secede brought war and destruction to their states. Iraq hasn't done that yet. |
I don't think Gore was comparing Iraq to the American Civil War. I think he was comparing the current insurrection to a civil war, and stating that if it were a simple civil war it would be much more easily solved. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I don't think Gore was comparing Iraq to the American Civil War |
I don't think he was either. I was disagreeing with him about Iraq being the greatest strategic mistake in American history. I say that the decision by Southern political leaders to secede and bring down destruction on their states remains the biggest blunder in American history. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I don't think he was either. I was disagreeing with him about Iraq being the greatest strategic mistake in American history. I say that the decision by Southern political leaders to secede and bring down destruction on their states remains the biggest blunder in American history. |
Perhaps, but the federal government wasn't responsible for that particular mistake. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Oddly enough I don't remember Gore being a major figure in the anti-war movement when I was living in the US from 2002-2003. Perhaps he also fell victim to the big, nationalistic mute button? |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Oddly enough I don't remember Gore being a major figure in the anti-war movement when I was living in the US from 2002-2003. Perhaps he also fell victim to the big, nationalistic mute button? |
No, he was busy (re)inventing the Internet. Using this clod as a voice of reason on any subject is laughable at best. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Probably true. Perhaps Iraq is our Sycilian expedition. |
In terms of the strategic goals of both Iraq and the Sicilian expedition being grossly unnecessary, perhaps. But I think Saddam Hussein was far more of a threat to the US than Sicily was to Athens, even if we suggest that Saddam was not much of a threat.
In terms of casualties, Nicias lost almost all of the Athenians with him. Iraq hasn't been that bad for the US, and is not likely to become that bad. The Americans were a lot more sober-minded on 9-12-01 than the Athenians were during that entire war.
But Iraq hasn't been as good as its been bad. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Iraq hasn't been that bad for the US, and is not likely to become that bad. |
Well lucky old US!! 
How bad has it been for the Iraqi's? Remind me again what they actually did to deserve everything thats happened there? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Iraq hasn't been that bad for the US, and is not likely to become that bad. |
Well lucky old US!!
How bad has it been for the Iraqi's? Remind me again what they actually did to deserve everything thats happened there? |
I was comparing the effect of the Sicilian campaign on Athens versus the effect of the Iraq campaign on the US. Go here and get a clue.
| Wikipedia wrote: |
| The Sicilian Expedition was an Athenian expedition to Sicily from 415 BC to 413 BC, during the Peloponnesian War. After initial success it turned into an unmitigated disaster for the Athenian forces. As Thucydides recounts wryly in his History of the Peloponnesian War, the generals leading the campaign had scant knowledge of Sicily, or of its population, and thus the forces marshaled for its conquering were woefully inadequate. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Iraq hasn't been that bad for the US, and is not likely to become that bad. |
Well lucky old US!!
How bad has it been for the Iraqi's? Remind me again what they actually did to deserve everything thats happened there? |
I was comparing the effect of the Sicilian campaign on Athens versus the effect of the Iraq campaign on the US. Go here and get a clue.
| Wikipedia wrote: |
| The Sicilian Expedition was an Athenian expedition to Sicily from 415 BC to 413 BC, during the Peloponnesian War. After initial success it turned into an unmitigated disaster for the Athenian forces. As Thucydides recounts wryly in his History of the Peloponnesian War, the generals leading the campaign had scant knowledge of Sicily, or of its population, and thus the forces marshaled for its conquering were woefully inadequate. |
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Ok Ok I responded in haste. Point taken. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps, but the federal government wasn't responsible for that particular mistake.
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I'm well aware of that fact, but many of the leaders of the secession movement were members of Congress or state legislatures. You have to work with me here. I'm referring to crappy decisions made by national leaders. If you insist on absolute parallels in history, then we can delete all of history when it comes to learning from the past. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Occupation is not an exit strategy.
cbc |
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