Korean Job Discussion Forums

Grimalkin · Joined: 22 May 2005

More and more scientists are discovering that a lot of behavior is genetically determined.

I remember reading about an experiment done by a hypnotist. Under hypnosis the subject was told that when he heard a certain word he would have an irrestible urge to take off his left shoe. He was also told that on waking he would have no recollection of being given that instruction. Sure enough shortly after being woken from his hypnotic state and on hearing the 'certain word' the subject took of his left shoe.

The hypnotist asked him why he had removed his shoe and the subject replied that it was because his foot was itchy and he needed to scratch it. Apparently this is a feature of post hypnotic suggestion. Not knowing why they are performing an action the subjects will come up with a reason (which they then believe) to rationalise what they have done.

Could this be the same with human behavior? Are we acting under some genetic imperative but we come up with a reason for our action so that we believe that we have chosen to act as we did, thus giving us the illusion of free will?

Ya-ta Boy · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994

I'm not sure how far I'd take it, but I suspect we are not as free as we generally think we are. For instance, when we're hungry we get irritable and begin thinking more and more about food. The same goes for when we are horny. I think we operate a lot more on automatic pilot than we realize, too.

Bulsajo · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

I was just watching a show last night (called 5th Estate, it shows documentaries) where they interviewed survivors of the Tsunami. One guy from Thailand, wearing monk's robes, said that he made a vow the day it hit that if he could find/recover the bodies of his wife and children he'd become a monk.
At one point near the end of the interview he said "you can't escape your fate".
Is that true, or is it just a way for us to come to terms with the chaos of the universe?
I guess that's a question only an agnostic could ask...

mnhnhyouh · Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Location: The Middle Kingdom

I think it impossible to tell the difference between a universe where I think I have free will, and one where I actually do.

Given this, I think the best way is to act as if I do, because it would be a shame to think it was all predetermined, if it wasnt.

h

Bulsajo · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

That is a GREAT answer. (not kidding)
Is it based on any particular philosopher, or is it your own thoughts?

Grimalkin · Joined: 22 May 2005

SPINOZA · Joined: 10 Jun 2005 Location: $eoul

Free will isn't an illusion, I don't think.

See A.J. Ayer's paper 'Freedom and Necessity'.

However, there's much to be said for the suggestion that we have free will to an extent, given one does not choose one's wants.

on a menu consisting of chicken, beef, pork, duck, lamb.....and Spin inevitably chooses the lamb, done medium rare....it's a relatively free choice because nobody coerced me to select lamb. I chose lamb because I wanted to. However, I did not choose to want to.

Grimalkin · Joined: 22 May 2005

SPINOZA

Ya-ta Boy · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994

What about pregnant women who get a craving for weird things like chalk? That would argue that we don't have free will in that context.

nautilus · Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Grimalkin · Joined: 22 May 2005

ED209 · Joined: 17 Oct 2006

My willy's an illusion.
There it is, oh no, gone again.
Want to see another trick?

"I think (with my d*ck) therefore I am( a d*ck)"

mnhnhyouh · Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Location: The Middle Kingdom

SPINOZA · Joined: 10 Jun 2005 Location: $eoul

Moldy Rutabaga · Joined: 01 Jul 2003 Location: Ansan, Korea

I think these are good answers. The tendency is to frame the question as though you do or don't have free will, and likely the messy truth is that we 'somewhat' have free will; we have inclinations and habits and environments that lead us to make certain choices, but nevertheless we do make those choices.

Ken:>