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gweet4
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: teaching in Daegu |
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| Hi everybody, I'm a newb, I did my research but can't seem to find much info on Daegu. I'm thinking on taking a position at the ECC in Daegu. Any information you can provide about living in Daegu, or ECC would be greatly appreciated..Specifically...how much I should be getting, do you like living there, are you able to save money, just b/c the cost of living is cheaper than Seoul does that mean I should take a salary sub 2 million won. Thanks. |
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Missile Command Kid
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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There's no reason to take a salary less than 2 million. What makes you think that it's cheaper than Seoul? If that's what the school is telling you, I'd laugh and walk away.
Daegu is nice. I'm living here with my wife and two kids, and we're enjoying it so far. Then again, we're not very exciting people, so the slower pace of life and smaller geographical area fits us quite well. |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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The cost of living between Daegu & Seoul are about the same. The only thing cheaper in Daegu is restaurants.
However, if you're not the type to eat out a lot, you'll find almost no difference in the cost of living.
There's a lot more to do on weekends in Seoul, but on the downside, it's a hellova lot more crowded too. So, if you don't like crowds, you should work in Daegu. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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YBM-ECC is the children's hogwan (private academy) branch of YBM Sisa, One of Korea's largest private education companies. YBM directly owns about 30 such hogwans, and there are around 70 private YBM franchises that use the YBM name and their materials. Teachers' experiences at both have varied considerably.
When confronted with systemic problems at YBM-ECC hogwans by an EFL teacher, Benjamin Han, personal director, recently responded "So what are you going to do about it? hahahhahahha." This seems typical of their managements' attitude.
A few things to note about YBM-ECC:
- They do not offer a competitive starting salary. A new teacher with no experience can start off on at least 2.0 million won / month, quite possibly better. An experienced teacher should get way more than this.
- They offer employees sick "classes" not sick days. If they offer 10 sick "classes" this could amount to less than two sick days.
- They often force employees to work Saturdays. Anyone can find a job in Korea that doesn't involve working Saturdays.
- There is often enormous disrespect for foreign teachers by both staff and students at most YBM-ECC hogwans.
- The good YBM-ECC hogwans have unfortunately been very tainted by the many bad ones.
- Finally, and most importantly, do not work for YBM-ECC if they want you to work anywhere else than the location indicated on your E2 Visa and Alien Registration Certificate. Doing so is illegal and can get you fined, deported, and even placed in temporary custody.
Here are what some people are saying about YBM-ECC:
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I worked at an ECC in Shihung City for one year, and while I often disagreed with the owner (who was really ignorant of how in-classroom teaching works) and did not trust him, I was always paid promptly and without hassle. Given what I have heard about many other schools, this is a pretty decent deal.
I made 1.9 million won/month, which is pretty respectable. If you shop around you can probably find better offers, but it�s hard to tell if a school is on the level. ECC is a big company at least, so they ahve to be somewhat legit, although it�s kind of a franchise system, so it really depends on the owner. |
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My wife and I taught in Koje-do for ECC. Conditions from ECC vary. My advice would be to contact a foreign( U.S., Canada, etc.) teacher and ask them every question imaginable. We enjoyed Koje Island very much because of the culture was more traditional Korean. Lots to do if you are in to outdoors. Not much offered for the person who wants to maintain a western lifestyle. I loved KOJE and had an open mind, so the difference were not as hard to deal with as they were for others. |
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I�ve been working in Korea for two years now. YBM - ECC is a huge company with schools on every corner. I�ve heard mixed reviews about them, but nothing frightening or really damaging. Mostly complaints about the size and feeling like factory workers. Pumping out the kids and English. I think you�re experience will largely be affected by the branch you work at. Every school has a different dynamic. Try to talk to someone who is actually working at the branch you�ll be working at. I think hey have hir own in house recruitment depatment so that�s why they are saying they own their own school. However that will save them money which should mean that they could pay you more. Wages in Korea have gone up - Don�t take anything under 2 mil, and if you have any experience at all shoot for 2.2 mil.
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There's hundereds of them, up and down the country. Some are good and some are bad.
Find the exact location of the one you're interested in and I'm sure there will be someone with firsthand experience.
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Working for ECC is like getting raped in prison...one man in a hundred will like it. (I never actually went to prison) |
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My first job was in a YBM ECC school.
Since then, I have seen better, I have seen worse.
Before you sign anything, compare their pay and working hours with that of any other job offers.
Also, take a look at the books which they use.
At that time, most YBM ECC schools used Parade, published by Pearson Education Inc., in some of their classes.
It is impossible to teach out of that series.
I made a chart which recorded what topic was covered in what pages in the other series.
Then, whenever I was to teach a class which used the Parade series, I ran the appropriate pages through the copier and used those pages instead.
One time, the director caught me using the copier for that purpose.
He yelled at me, threw the copies down on the floor, stamped into the office, and slammed the door.
Then I picked the copies off the floor and used them anyway.
The publisher has since come out with another series which is just as bad, but I can't remember its name.
They probably changed the name because their reputation caught up with them.
Better look through the school's textbooks before you sign anything. |
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It is completely ridiculous to bash the entire company as they own hundreds of schools.
You need to find out about a particular school for yourself (i.e. talk to teachers there). My first job was also with ECC and it was fine for a newbie gig. |
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The number of bad schools with the YBM and ECC name justifies a complete lack of faith in the franchise. Why take a risk when you don't have to? The schools have the one of the worst reputations in Korea. The overwhelming number of complaints drowns out any small number of happy people. Most people who have posted that they liked the franchise eventually post again in a few months saying how they were eventually screwed around by them. |
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[Re: ECC - Yeonsu Incheon]
Contract Fraud At ECC - Yeonsu Incheon, South Korea [KOREA(South)]
After Mr. Kim and Sunny think they have you which took them 2 or three months for me, they will call you into a secret meeting in which they will ask you to sign a fake contract. Let me back up; there�s the contract you sign that your recruiter gets to you which states you will be making 1.9 million won per month. But guess what! Once you�re there they pressure you to sign a fake contract stating you only make 1 million won per month. They do this to save on how much they must pay to the pension office on your behalf. Supposedly, all the teachers do it including the Korean AND the other foreign teachers. This is the kind of peer pressure Sunny attempted to exert when I refused to sign the false document. Mr. Kim tried to laugh at me to make me feel perhaps like less of a man for not signing it. I must�ve sat in his office for half an hour just saying "no" over and over again before I was finally excused. It made me very uncomfortable but they couldn�t care less about that. All they�re interested in is saving a buck. By the way, in S. Korea it is the employee who is responsible for his or her payment of taxes as well as to the pension office NOT the employer. So although it is the employer who is figuring your deductions it�s unknown if they are acting in your best interest. I wouldn�t trust or shall I say risk my legal standing in a foreign country especially not S. Korea just to help my employers save some money. According to the law any alien working with a valid visa can be deported or even worse for breaking any S. Korean laws. Trust me, they�re not worth risking yourself for. They wouldn�t do it for you...believe me!
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ECC Foreign Language Institute is suffering from management promoted to the level of their inefficiency and tunnel vision brought about by profits increasing at the same time that work conditions are falling.
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ECC/YBM franchises who buy into the main companies name are unregulated by the that head office, and as such the Directors of these private schools are free to treat teachers in any manner they see fit. There are no doubt good schools, but few teachers who leave positive statements about them actually leave the name of the school they work for, so it's difficult to estimate just how many good ECC schools actually operate. |
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I spent many hours corresponding to the ECC/YBM head office concerning the treatment I was receiving - and yes that treatment was very distasteful (I would be happy to share that experience with any new teacher deciding on a school for the first time). The head office appeared very concerned, and at least for that I am thankful, but no action was, or has to my knowledge been taken.
English teachers did remain following my departure, and their determination to stay with their contracts will always impress me, they are the backbone of ESL. For me, I was pushed further and deeper into a no win situation and was forced to leave - to my deep regret, as I met wonderful friends and simply loved South Korea.
A few points:
1. ECC head office must regulate the Directors buying their name OR continue to take the massive onslaught of negative comments, which teachers have the right to express.
2. Teachers working for professional, responsible ECC franchises should leave the name of that school for all to see.
3. Much of the problems seem to start from the foundations of TEFL; Cheap, unprofessional TEFL courses, terrible recruiters and then the schools.
4.If you are in a unpleasent situation, then always remember you are the professional. I always thought that myself, and now I work to the high standard I expected from ESL teaching.
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The reason for my leaving:
1- 'Extreme Rudeness' and sometimes violent behavior from the owners Mr. & Mrs. YU, towards employers who demanded basic respect.
Other teachres - Mike, Zac, Jullie, and a Korean teacher named May secretly left the city without getting in serious discustions with the owners. I on the other hand stayed and demanded the owners respect and honesty; as they could not swallow their misplaced pride, before an "unworthy employer" they actually tried to get into physical fight with me. Their attempt was stopped by interference of my Korean friend. I now think the other teachers were wiser than I was. I will be taking propper legal action to put these pepole where they belong.
2- 'Dishonest Contracts' that would force us, the teachers work for our 10 days annual vacations that were supposed to be Paid vacations. These smartly written contracts would also allow the school to spread our class hours and give us classes anytime of the day or night.
3- 'State of Chaos', we were not given the books we needed to teach the students from, our teachers room was in fact a narrow balcony turned into a room for 12 teachers, you can imagine how we had to actually push our way through to be able to rest on a chair during the breaks. I had t borrow books from my students to be able to teach them!!
4- 'Home On The Railroad'; I was given a flat in a house right next to the busy Railroad track/Subway that runs between Seoul and Uijanboo, with trains passing every five minutes. Needless to say,most nights I had a hard time going to sleep. Can you imagine just to save $20 to $30 a month, YUs chose to rent a flat there and not in the next block!
**Be aware: These pepole will do anything to get new teachers. They have already told me that if I put my experience with them on the Net, they will fight back. Also this school owner has 3 ECC schools in Uijanboo City, and as he has been desperate for teachers, he have used his business friends such as 'Korea Herald Kids School' to help him recruit new teachers.
The amazing thing is that these people prefer paying lots of money to hire new teachers, over changing their abusive behavior and dishonest contracts to encourage the teachers to stay and not to quit! |
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ECC DAERIM SUCK BIG TIME - so do the students and the owner - i left pronto and was happy to give them the airfare, visa money and relocation fee back as well as pay for anotherflight to japan to get out of the shonky under PAID contract - good luck to those still working there - now I have a fab job in Hongik better pay better house (ie no SHARING) better students and life is grand. |
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I was fired from ECC after having worked there for five months. I consider it to be a tremendous favor on their part as I was miserable there and am much happier at my new school. I feel awful for the folks who are still there and afraid to test the waters for something better. The school has the usual flaws, inefficiency, disorganization etc. What it also has is a fascist for a director. The mind games and abuse that this women inflicts on her workers is a crime. It is difficult to elucidate here. Psychological warfare is really the best analogy I can offer. If she doesnt like a teacher, she abuses them until they break or leave or both. There is no cultural misunderstanding here, this women is a petty, vindictive and evil person. Also, the owners of the school are dishonest and cannot be relied upon to fullfill their contractual obligations. I would suggest that anyone considering working at this school, consider otherwise. |
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my advice is to avoid SISA, any SISA. I worked at chongno about 4 years ago... I was not impressed and felt like I was a dilbert like drone in a machine that didn't know who I was or cared about anything. Plus I felt that they really treated the Korean staff poorly- this caused tension in the office. |
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I am writing this message to warn all who are considering teaching in Korea to avoid Jeon Byong-O (AKA "Mr. John") of ECC Namyangju. The school is actually owned by Kwan Hye Jin, but is is operated by the aformentioned Mr. John, who may be her husband. Mr. John is one of the worst bosses you could ever have the misfortune of having. He is greedy, stingy, and short-tempered, with little ability to think logically. Because of this, the atmosphere and morale in the school is extremely poor. His attitude is that since he has paid a recruiter fee the teacher is thus his property. In my case, because I had teaching experience he actually tried to sell me to another school for profit. Even worse, he is an unrepentant criminal. My contract stipulated that from my salary 3.3% Korean taxes and 4.5% pension was to be deducted, and that the pension money would be refunded when I left Korea. When my year drew to an end I found that he had been committing tax and pension fraud. He had not remitted either amount to the government. I expected to get a 9% lump-sum pension refund (my 4.5%, plus the employer's 4.5%) from the pension corporation, but found that he had not even registered with the pension corporation despite being required to do so by law. With the help of the International Tax Office of the National Tax Service, and the Ministry of Labour, I was able to get most of my 4.5% pension contribution refunded. At the time of the final refund however, he attacked me physically and I had to flee the building (fortunately with the money already in hand). Take my word for it, you do not need this kind of person in your life. There is also some reason to believe that the tax fraud is being committed on the advice of ECC's head office, so I would suggest you avoid the entire chain. |
I think you get the picture. You might luck out, but you might be in for a very hellish year (or however long you last). There are safer bets for a much better salary, to be sure. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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People's bad experiences usually boil down to 2 things. Who they are as a person and who the director is as a person. As for enormous disrespect and all that other stuff at 'most' ECC schools, I can 't confirm that nor can YuBumSuk, because there are over 100 schools that we are talking about. Also, we have to take those half-dozen teacher complaints at face value and assume that the teacher was not at fault in any way for the predicament they were in and possibly embellishing. Anyone who has ever worked with large groups of foreigners at a school has worked with a flake before and also knows that 5 different people will often have 5 different opinions about the same thing. That's why you seldom ever see someone blacklist a school and their co-workers all jump online and echo the same sentiment. Or you seldom see patterned blacklists of same schools over the years, ie., teacher in 2003 blacklists the school, then the replacing teacher in 2004 blacklists the same school, then in 2005, etc....And people tend to blacklist shortly after being fired or quitting. A time when their emotion of the situation is at its peak and lots of jilted and potential vengeful feelings. Ingredients that are not known to be ripe for being 100% factual and being candid about what they also might have done to aggravate their personal situation. These forums have lots of history of falsifyng or embellishing teachers being outed by others in the know who come online to call BS on the blacklist. Take blacklists with a grain of salt.
Having said that, you can also take me with a grain of salt when I should mention that I know from first hand and also from the other teachers that I've known to work there, that ECC in Chilgok of Daegu is run quite well, with some teachers renewing contracts. I've known people who had good experiences with Chimsan ECC in Daegu, but I can't offer first-hand on that.
Your best bet on qualifying the school, however, is forgeting what you read on the net about other ECC schools, either good or bad stories, and ask loads of questions to the current teachers there and particularly the one who you are replacing, before you sign a contract.
Here's some more info on Daegu:
http://wiki.galbijim.com/Daegu
Slowly beginning work on nightlife articles of Daegu, as well.
Last edited by chronicpride on Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| Anyone who has ever worked with large groups of foreigners at a school has worked with a flake before and also knows that 5 different people will often have 5 different opinions about the same thing. |
But when five foreign teachers ranging from very hard-working to useless and their five KT co-workers all agree that the boss is an idiot, he's probably an idiot. |
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seoulsista
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ECC is a huge company with many franchises. However, if it is the branch in Daegok DO NOT TAKE THE JOB. My friend was fired from there in March of 2006 and the story was a typical nightmarish hagwon tale. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| Anyone who has ever worked with large groups of foreigners at a school has worked with a flake before and also knows that 5 different people will often have 5 different opinions about the same thing. |
But when five foreign teachers ranging from very hard-working to useless and their five KT co-workers all agree that the boss is an idiot, he's probably an idiot. |
Sure, but online blacklists are not usually followed by a chorus line of similar complaints from co-workers. Its usually just one guy complaining. The lack of 'yeah, me too' about the same school should be as notable as the blacklist itself. |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| seoulsista wrote: |
| ECC is a huge company with many franchises. However, if it is the branch in Daegok DO NOT TAKE THE JOB. My friend was fired from there in March of 2006 and the story was a typical nightmarish hagwon tale. |
The interesting story about ECC Korea is that they hijacked the name and their logo from the original company in Japan. I once interviewed in Japan with this company and they told me about the Korean company stealing their name and logo. Anyway, if you're in Japan, they're a good esl school to work for. They look very professional and I knew one teacher who worked for them and liked it. They also pay a bit more than the other major schools. I don't know anything about the imposter here in Korea.  |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| Anyone who has ever worked with large groups of foreigners at a school has worked with a flake before and also knows that 5 different people will often have 5 different opinions about the same thing. |
But when five foreign teachers ranging from very hard-working to useless and their five KT co-workers all agree that the boss is an idiot, he's probably an idiot. |
Sure, but online blacklists are not usually followed by a chorus line of similar complaints from co-workers. Its usually just one guy complaining. The lack of 'yeah, me too' about the same school should be as notable as the blacklist itself. |
I've read over some blacklist comments and the tone and quality of writing often says a great deal, too. I think if anyone read over the comments about my ex-employer I've put on several blacklists they would be quite confident that it is in fact a bad, though not the worst, job where they can still save up a fair bit of money while getting treated with absolute disrespect doing a farcical job, living in poor, though not the worst, accomodations. If they wish to settle for that at least I can say I have no pity for them. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
| seoulsista wrote: |
| ECC is a huge company with many franchises. However, if it is the branch in Daegok DO NOT TAKE THE JOB. My friend was fired from there in March of 2006 and the story was a typical nightmarish hagwon tale. |
The interesting story about ECC Korea is that they hijacked the name and their logo from the original company in Japan. I once interviewed in Japan with this company and they told me about the Korean company stealing their name and logo. Anyway, if you're in Japan, they're a good esl school to work for. They look very professional and I knew one teacher who worked for them and liked it. They also pay a bit more than the other major schools. I don't know anything about the imposter here in Korea. |
It should be noted that ECC Thailand also has 56 branches.
There's also a poster here who used to work for the editing dept of ECC corporate and was paid and treated well. If you're reading this, I think my friend still has your cellphone that you dropped on one drunken night together in Itaewon, awhile back.  |
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gweet4
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: cost of living in Daegu and Seoul? |
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| thanks for the info. So everybody agrees that the cost of living in Daegu is about the same as Seoul? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: cost of living in Daegu and Seoul? |
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| gweet4 wrote: |
| thanks for the info. So everybody agrees that the cost of living in Daegu is about the same as Seoul? |
Seoul has more upmarket areas as well as higher housing prices in some areas. Both cities proper are about the same size geographically but Seoul is much more populous. There's not much you could find in Seoul that you couldn't find in Daegu and the differences in lifestyle for the foreigner between the two cities are not huge. |
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DaeguKid
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Gweet...life is preferences which in turn lead to choices. In my case I went to a small uni in a small town because I felt that if i lived in a city I would pay big rent, drop big money on going out to great shows and pretty much living large.
Now your going to hear about people on here that tell you Seoul is the end all and be all of Korea. I disagree. I chose Daegu because its not that big geographically. Hence it doesnt take an hour to get anywhere as it does in Seoul. Yes Seoul has all the remedies of whatever you want, but how many Seoul-ites have ventured out of Seoul. Not many I would have to guess. The thing about Daegu as well, and I'm sure Seoul folks will agree is that when you meet people in Daegu, you will see them the following weekend, or downtown during the week. Not as such in Seoul. Too big and spread out. Daegu has a good family network of foriegn friends and its easy to meet and remain friends with people here in the Gu. And one more thing to add, your only a KTX ride away from Seoul. You can catch the gigs, do some great shopping, drop a wad of cash, and the pull shute to get out.
Now as for you hogwon, ask the foriegn teachers that work there...ALL OF THEM, not just one. Ask about working conditions, the boss, the housing, the "extra cirricular" crap that may be asked of you, the pay. ECC may have some ups and downs, but the upside is that your pay will be there every month (90%chance) as compared to a mom and pop hogwon.
If you have any questions feel free to ask. Good luck in your decisions. Oh yeah, and screw working Saturdays....it sucks! |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| DaeguKid wrote: |
| I chose Daegu because its not that big geographically. |
Have you looked at a map of Korea? The city of Daegu is almost the same size as the city of Seoul, geographically. If traffic were the same it would take about the same amount of time to get across both by car. There's just less stuff in Daegu so most of it's closer to the city centre. |
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