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from Tokyo to Korea?
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Captain Zoom



Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:08 am    Post subject: from Tokyo to Korea? Reply with quote

Hi folks,

This question might not get asked much, but I'm thinking about taking a break from Tokyo and ducking over to Korea for a year. The main reason is that things are really expensive here and salaries aren't that high. I manage to send money home, but my bank account is running low and I feel the need to sock away some serious savings.

So, yeah, that's where Korea comes in. I visited Seoul for a few days so I think I have a bit of a feel for that city, but I just have some questions about Korea. If anyone would be kind enough to help out, that'd be cool.

1) Is there a big difference in what the typical person saves depending on whether you live in Seoul or in some other area?

2) How livable are the major cities besides Seoul? Are there any major differences between Seoul and the other big cities? (besides Seoul's greater size and stature, of course) I might like Busan as I could duck over to Japan quite easily I gather on the ferry and I have some friends in that part of Japan.

3) Is there a lot of foreigner-Korean interaction outside of Seoul? I ask this because I'd like to study Korean and it would certainly help to live someplace were chatty and outgoing and whatnot. Are any cities or areas well-known for that kind of thing? I imagine that Seoul is too big to be very friendly.

4) If I'm only going to be there for a year, I wonder if I could power-study my way to decent Korean. What do you think? I have decent Japanese, which should give me a head start. Are there any areas of Korea where foreigners seem to have a higher level of Korean ability?

5) Are people going to give me problems because I've lived in Japan? Is this something that I'm going to have to hide from Koreans? It's not really something that I'd want to keep secret, so are there any areas of Korea that are particularly anti-Japan? Any areas where it would be less of a problem?

6) Any other thoughts?

So, yeah, I'd appreciate any comments. Basically, I'm just an experienced English teacher who's looking to pile as much away into my bank account as possible in one year and since I'm there anyway I'd like to get at least an intermediate level of Korean by the time I go.

Thanks,

Zoom
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kingplaya4



Joined: 14 May 2006

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can tell you is people way exaggerate the money they save here. I think some maybe are in the ballpark, but understand some of them have Korean wives, and have been here many years and make a lot more than us newbs have an opportunity to do.

On a salary of 2.0 in Daegu which I am told is a lot cheaper than Seoul I honestly end up sending home about 700 USD a month, and I only go out once a week (as far as drinking) and don't go nuts. Don't know how this compares with Japan, but from talking with my coworkers here, this is a ballpark fairly typical actual savings rate, although I know one guys who really lives it up and doesn't save a penny. Don't know how this compares to Japan, but before I came here I was told sending home 1000 USD after going out all the time was easy, not true, although if you live small it is possible without privates.
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Rey Mysterio 619



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Location: 619 Connect

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends. Average pay is 2.2 a month now I think. Remember this though: Korea is not like Japan - there is one city, and one city only - Seoul. All other cities are smaller versions without a distinct character.

Also, Korea, if you were to compare it to Tokyo, Taipei, Bangkok, Saigon, Phnom Penh, etc is really boring regarding nightlife. So it works both ways - either sit at home for lack of any good things to do, or go out and spend a lot of money just trying to remain sane.

Truth be told though, the money here can be good, but it takes time to find the good gigs. You won't find the good jobs via the internet, or the privates, either; all the good stuff comes from the people you know.
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doggyji



Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: from Tokyo to Korea? Reply with quote

Captain Zoom wrote:
5) Are people going to give me problems because I've lived in Japan? Is this something that I'm going to have to hide from Koreans? It's not really something that I'd want to keep secret, so are there any areas of Korea that are particularly anti-Japan? Any areas where it would be less of a problem?
Just the fact that you lived in Japan? God no. Absolutely no worries unless you are supporting some uber uyoku agendas.
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Rey Mysterio 619



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Location: 619 Connect

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, I sounded really bitter in my post, allow me to clarify - what I meant was, is that it is difficult to meet people in Korea, as opposed to other Asian countries.

Koreans are offish towards foreigners, and a lot of foreigners here have an unapproachable holier-than-thou attitude for some bizarre reason. Make of that what you will, but it is true.
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laogaiguk



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: from Tokyo to Korea? Reply with quote

Captain Zoom wrote:


1) Is there a big difference in what the typical person saves depending on whether you live in Seoul or in some other area?

Not a big difference. The bigger difference is lifestyle. Someone in Seoul who has as much of a social life as someone in the boonies would save about the same amount. The difference is there is more to spend on in Seoul, not that it is necessarily more expensive. In the country, there is no Costco, so you can't really spend much there if you can only go once a month. Smile
Quote:


2) How livable are the major cities besides Seoul? Are there any major differences between Seoul and the other big cities? (besides Seoul's greater size and stature, of course) I might like Busan as I could duck over to Japan quite easily I gather on the ferry and I have some friends in that part of Japan.

Don't know, but I think they are somewhat different. From what I have heard of Busan, it's somewhat similiar to Tokyo and Osaka (I know those two well though).
Quote:

3) Is there a lot of foreigner-Korean interaction outside of Seoul? I ask this because I'd like to study Korean and it would certainly help to live someplace were chatty and outgoing and whatnot. Are any cities or areas well-known for that kind of thing? I imagine that Seoul is too big to be very friendly.

Yes. You will see a lot of posts here about how people do not speak Korean to people in Seoul. I live in the country, most of the time there isn't even an option to speak something else. And they always treat me like a native speaker unless I ask them to slow down. They don't shower me with baby Korean Wink
Quote:

4) If I'm only going to be there for a year, I wonder if I could power-study my way to decent Korean. What do you think? I have decent Japanese, which should give me a head start. Are there any areas of Korea where foreigners seem to have a higher level of Korean ability?

I have half-decent Japanese, and found Korean easier than others because of it. I am also pretty good with languages though. You shouldn't have any more trouble than any other language though if you have studied Japanese.
Quote:

5) Are people going to give me problems because I've lived in Japan? Is this something that I'm going to have to hide from Koreans? It's not really something that I'd want to keep secret, so are there any areas of Korea that are particularly anti-Japan? Any areas where it would be less of a problem?

No. I think a few people tend to hold back their anti-Japan sentiments around me because they know I lived there and have Japanese friends, but nothing on the other side. I try not to bring up Japan often though, except in places I have been, things I have eaten,etc. (just don't bring up politics or history, probably good advice anywhere).
Quote:

6) Any other thoughts?

No, but I can probably help with any questions. Been here 1 and a half years, and two in Japan.
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laogaiguk



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: from Tokyo to Korea? Reply with quote

[quote="laogaiguk"]
Captain Zoom wrote:


1) Is there a big difference in what the typical person saves depending on whether you live in Seoul or in some other area?

Not a big difference. The bigger difference is lifestyle. Someone in Seoul who has as much of a social life as someone in the boonies would save about the same amount. The difference is there is more to spend on in Seoul, not that it is necessarily more expensive. In the country, there is no Costco, so you can't really spend much there if you can only go once a month. Smile
Quote:


2) How livable are the major cities besides Seoul? Are there any major differences between Seoul and the other big cities? (besides Seoul's greater size and stature, of course) I might like Busan as I could duck over to Japan quite easily I gather on the ferry and I have some friends in that part of Japan.

Don't know, but I think they are somewhat different. From what I have heard of Busan, it's somewhat similiar to Tokyo and Osaka (I know those two well though).
Quote:

3) Is there a lot of foreigner-Korean interaction outside of Seoul? I ask this because I'd like to study Korean and it would certainly help to live someplace were chatty and outgoing and whatnot. Are any cities or areas well-known for that kind of thing? I imagine that Seoul is too big to be very friendly.

Yes. You will see a lot of posts here about how people do not speak Korean to people in Seoul. I live in the country, most of the time there isn't even an option to speak something else. And they always treat me like a native speaker unless I ask them to slow down. They don't shower me with baby Korean Wink
Quote:

4) If I'm only going to be there for a year, I wonder if I could power-study my way to decent Korean. What do you think? I have decent Japanese, which should give me a head start. Are there any areas of Korea where foreigners seem to have a higher level of Korean ability?

I have half-decent Japanese, and found Korean easier than others because of it. I am also pretty good with languages though. You shouldn't have any more trouble than any other language though if you have studied Japanese.
Quote:

5) Are people going to give me problems because I've lived in Japan? Is this something that I'm going to have to hide from Koreans? It's not really something that I'd want to keep secret, so are there any areas of Korea that are particularly anti-Japan? Any areas where it would be less of a problem?

No. I think a few people tend to hold back their anti-Japan sentiments around me because they know I lived there and have Japanese friends, but nothing on the other side. I try not to bring up Japan often though, except in places I have been, things I have eaten,etc. (just don't bring up politics or history, probably good advice anywhere).
Quote:

6) Any other thoughts?

No, but I can probably help with any questions. Been here 1 and a half years, and two in Japan. Whatever other people say, you can definitely save more here in Korea than Japan living the exact same lifestyle (though maybe not as fun as Japan). But you can go out drinking just as much, or whatever you do do (it just won't be quite as interesting).
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cwaddell



Joined: 23 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding saving money, I'm not sure how the poster above fails to save only 700,000 Won when only drinking once a month. I either go out drinking, or go on a weekend trip to a different city every weekend, and find it pretty easy to save 1,000,000 a month.
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rothkowitz



Joined: 27 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm...say you're on 2.2 and go out once a week(spending 50K each time)

You ought to be able to save 1 million easily if:

-you don't need to buy a new wardrobe
-don't have an expensive hobby
-have a gf that's modest rather than high-maintenance
-don't mind getting sloshed cheaply at home or at friends
-don't go on trips to Thailand during your holiday
-can keep yourself amused to some extent

The more you socialise and want to take up new stuff,then the more you'll spend.Some teachers will keep this in check by not paying their fair share or pleading poverty.

If you take up kumdo or a gym subscription that could be 80k a month...

To save money I'll do a gi-normous shop every 2 weeks then make sure to cook at home as much as possible.Trying to maintain a western diet will probably be your biggest expense.
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princess



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: soul of Asia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always worry that I don't save crap compared to other people, but I am single and I have a life. At least I have met people worse off than me though. In 2004, one girl I worked with didn't have a dime at the end of her one year contract. She had to borrow 600,000 from another teacher to get through her last 2 weeks before getting her final pay and bonus. She took waaaaaaay too may taxi rides from Seoul to Uijeoungbu and drank like a fish. I could never be this poor at saving money.
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numazawa



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: The Concrete Barnyard

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

princess wrote:
At least I have met people worse off than me though.



No question, Schadenfreude can go a long way on a tight budget.
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PimpofKorea



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Location: Dealing in high quality imported English

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wanna save money....eat your own boogers....it will get you through a drought...believe you and me.
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Captain Zoom



Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: from Tokyo to Korea? Reply with quote

laogaiguk wrote:
No, but I can probably help with any questions. Been here 1 and a half years, and two in Japan.


Cool, ok then. I notice you said that you live in the country, is there any particular reason for that? I guess that I would probably live in Seoul unless there's a particularly good reason not to (ex. language opportunities/money/friendliness, etc.) Or, to put it another way, are there any good reasons you can think of why someone should (or would want to) live somewhere other than Seoul?

You lived in Tokyo and Osaka so you got a good cross-section of Japan. Of the two, which do you think is closer to life in Seoul? I'd hate to leave the cold-hearted megalopolis of Tokyo just to jump into a carbon-copy in Seoul. The reason I'm interested in Busan is because it's close to Japan and people say it's more like Osaka while Seoul is more like Tokyo.

If it's not too personal, why did you leave Japan for Korea?

And, um, last question. This is in no way intended to offend anyone or pass judgement on the foreign community in Korea, but....here goes. When I visited Seoul, I popped into a couple of foreigner-type bars and it was quite an experience. To put it somewhat impolitely, it looked like a trailer park had exploded. Is this par for the course in Seoul? Did I just go on a bad night?

I imagine that I'd mainly just hunker down and build the bank account, so I suppose the particular conditions don't matter too much. Still, it'd be nice to have a reasonably good time.

I'm mainly considering this as an alternative to living in the inaka and building the bank account. I imagine that living in a big Korean city would be more interesting than living in some small town in Fukushima-ken or something like that.

Thanks,

Zoom
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rocklee



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you come to Seoul, you will find that your standards will drop.

Those trailer park bars are pretty common in these parts.

I loved Japan for being Japan (there is no other way that I could describe it), I loved China for being so big and mysterious and I'm slowly warming up to Korea for being the way it is.
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laogaiguk



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: from Tokyo to Korea? Reply with quote

Captain Zoom wrote:


Cool, ok then. I notice you said that you live in the country, is there any particular reason for that? I guess that I would probably live in Seoul unless there's a particularly good reason not to (ex. language opportunities/money/friendliness, etc.) Or, to put it another way, are there any good reasons you can think of why someone should (or would want to) live somewhere other than Seoul?

I found a really good job in teh country. Also, I was saving money and living in the country is much better for that. Persoanlly, I think a good job is the most important factor for happiness, even if you live in a crappy place.
Quote:

You lived in Tokyo and Osaka so you got a good cross-section of Japan. Of the two, which do you think is closer to life in Seoul? I'd hate to leave the cold-hearted megalopolis of Tokyo just to jump into a carbon-copy in Seoul. The reason I'm interested in Busan is because it's close to Japan and people say it's more like Osaka while Seoul is more like Tokyo.

Tokyo is the same a Seoul (as much as you can compare them, there are obvious a lot of differences culturally). In the big city sense, they are similiar enough to say you will probably have the same feeling as you do in Tokyo. Again, I can't talk about Pusan, but from what I have gathered from people who did live there, it is similar to what I know of Osaka, though a lot less to do (Osaka is in the Kansai region, with Nara, Kyoto, etc to visit). I am thinking Pusan might be a better choice for you. This opinion is not based on very hard facts though Wink
Quote:

If it's not too personal, why did you leave Japan for Korea?

Actually, I didn't. I went to China for a year after Japan. I liked China, hated my job, so found a new one (now in Korea). I might go back to Japan, go back to China, stay in Korea or head off somewhere else (maybe Europe). I have no idea. I only take jobs that I am interested in and help me professionally (one way is by being relevant to my future plans). I go where the job is, and factor the country into the choice after. I probably wouldn't go to Iraq though...
Quote:


And, um, last question. This is in no way intended to offend anyone or pass judgement on the foreign community in Korea, but....here goes. When I visited Seoul, I popped into a couple of foreigner-type bars and it was quite an experience. To put it somewhat impolitely, it looked like a trailer park had exploded. Is this par for the course in Seoul? Did I just go on a bad night?


Unfortunately, there are a massive amount of losers here, but no more so than Japan. They are just different. Here, they are usually cheap, annoying artsies with no plans on staying past a year or two and their only goal is to save money. Obviously, the losers in Japan are different, many are "I'm Mr. Superstar here in Japan" kind. Anyway, I found in Japan, most foreign girls were great, while the guys we jerks or social losers 50% of the time. Here in Korea, there is no gender difference. The girls can be just as big a jerk as the guys. They tend to be more annoying here in Korea, but less impacting on my life Smile That doesn't really say all I want how I want it too, but it gets my point across.
Quote:


I imagine that I'd mainly just hunker down and build the bank account, so I suppose the particular conditions don't matter too much. Still, it'd be nice to have a reasonably good time.

I'm mainly considering this as an alternative to living in the inaka and building the bank account. I imagine that living in a big Korean city would be more interesting than living in some small town in Fukushima-ken or something like that.

Thanks,

Zoom


I suggest finding a good job, whether in Seoul, Pusan or Daegu. I think the country side might not be the best for you. Pusan might be your best option. You will save more, and most likely a lot more than in Japan.
By the way, how long do you have on your Japanese visa. The best thing you can do is get a short term job that will renew your visa, come here for a year or two, and then your 3 year Japanese visa is still valid when you go back (getting a job with a visa is much easier...).
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