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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: I need some backup, English majors and grammar nazis |
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I can't believe I have to do this. I've been with her for 10 years if you include the dating game.
My wife doesn't accept my advice on this and she doesn't believe me when I tell her I'm right. I'm just trying to help her. I didn't major in English and my grammar sucks, but I know I'm right.
Example:
Using Not only and but also in the same sentence.
This is the way she wanted to use it:
Sandra not only was exasperated but also mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
This is the way I told her it must be:
Sandra was not only exasperated but also mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
Now you guys know that I'm right. Help me out so I can prove it to her. She thinks I'm blowing smoke, trying to nit pick. I'm really not trying to be a nit picker. What do you think?
Thanks.
Last edited by SuperFly on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thebum
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Location: North Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| i'm no expert at relationships, but maybe you should just let it go? |
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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I'm totally willing to do that if you agree that I'm right and she's wrong.
Ow! She just hit me!
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thebum
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Location: North Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: |
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well, if you're going to be nitpicky, you are right. you should correlate what comes after "not only" with what comes after "but also". so, technically, you are right, and she is wrong. however, this construction is also possible (but not the best sounding) - so it is not true that it "must be" the way you said:
Sandra not only was exasperated but also was mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
i hope she hits you again. |
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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Thanks! |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
This is the way she wanted to use it:
Sandra not only was exasperated but also mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
This is the way I told her it must be:
Sandra was not only exasperated but also mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead. |
I'll have a go. 'Not only' is a correlative conjunction (i.e. "not only... but also"), but since your question is about word order, it's perhaps more important to recognise that 'not only' is also an adverb here by function since it's meant to modify the verbal adjective 'exasperated'. While I don't think there is a strict rule about word order, if adverbs are modifying adjectives or other adverbs they should immediately precede the words they are modifying. In other words, to avoid any confusion and sound more natural we should try to place 'not only' right next to (and preceding since it's an adverb modifying an adjective) the word it's intended to modify; and the other correlative conjuction ('but also') should be the same - modify the same kind of word, in the same order and function in the same way (be consistent).
Anyway, in your wife's example it could appear somewhat ambiguously to be modifying the noun 'Sandra' (i.e. "Not only Sandra"), though it's pretty unlikely to confuse a native speaker, who could obviously figure out the intended meaning either way. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I think both sentences are correct. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Both are right
so you are wrong,
since you said she MUST do it your way. |
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JeJuJitsu
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: I need some backup, English majors and grammar nazis |
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| SuperFly wrote: |
ISandra not only was exasperated but also mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
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Maybe she thinks you're turning into a fatty? |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I think both sentences are correct. |
| Quote: |
Both are right
so you are wrong,
since you said she MUST do it your way. |
Obviously his way is the better, more natural sounding way, as any native speaker can quickly recognize. Her way may not be technically incorrect, but it definitely sounds wrong. A native speaker would almost never say it her way, and she should accept it as a necessary correction and learn from it. He had a point.
Last edited by pastis on Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| thebum wrote: |
Sandra not only was exasperated but also was mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
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You could also write it like this, which sounds a bit better to me:
Sandra not only was exasperated but was also mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
I think both sentences in the OP are grammatically correct. It seems a matter of taste. |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| thebum wrote: |
Sandra not only was exasperated but also was mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
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You could also write it like this, which sounds a bit better to me:
Sandra not only was exasperated but was also mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
I think both sentences in the OP are grammatically correct. It seems a matter of taste. |
All you're doing is adding another linking verb ("was"), but since it refers to the same subject ("Sandra"), it's not necessary and could be omitted (though keeping it is equally as acceptable). It still sounds better in any case to put the "not only" after the first "was". |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| pastis wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| thebum wrote: |
Sandra not only was exasperated but also was mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
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You could also write it like this, which sounds a bit better to me:
Sandra not only was exasperated but was also mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
I think both sentences in the OP are grammatically correct. It seems a matter of taste. |
All you're doing is adding another linking verb ("was"), but since it refers to the same subject ("Sandra"), it's not necessary and could be omitted (though keeping it is equally as acceptable). It still sounds better in any case to put the "not only" after the first "was". |
No, thebum (not I) has added the second 'was' which can clearly be omitted (I did point out that both the OP sentences are grammatically correct) and I've just commented that it sounds better to me if he puts the second "was" before the "also." His way just seemed a touch clumsy to me.
Last edited by Big_Bird on Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ilovebdt
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Location: Nr Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer your version.
Your wife's version sounds awkward to me. When I read it I was left womdering when the verb was going to show up. 
ilovebdt |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| pastis wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| thebum wrote: |
Sandra not only was exasperated but also was mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
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You could also write it like this, which sounds a bit better to me:
Sandra not only was exasperated but was also mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead.
I think both sentences in the OP are grammatically correct. It seems a matter of taste. |
All you're doing is adding another linking verb ("was"), but since it refers to the same subject ("Sandra"), it's not necessary and could be omitted (though keeping it is equally as acceptable). It still sounds better in any case to put the "not only" after the first "was". |
No, thebum (not I) has added the second 'was' which can clearly be omitted (I did point out that both the OP sentences are grammatically correct) and I've just commented that it sounds better to me if he puts the second "was" before the "also." His way just seemed a touch clumsy to me. |
Oh sorry, that's right (didn't see the name you had quoted)... However my point was just that in your version of the sentence the first "was" still comes after the "not only" (same way his wife did it), which I don't think sounds right. I do agree with you about the placement of the second "was" though, if it's included. I guess I'd just say "Sandra was not only exasperated but [was] also mad when she found out Troy was pretending to work but goofing off instead." The extra "was" being optional, actually sounds a tad better if included imo. |
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