Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Ya-ta Boy]

I was browsing around and found an excerpt from a new book called "The Confucian Mind" by Daniel Wang. It seems to me like it deserves a look. While reading it, little bells started ringing. Think about bosses who hold the passport; who say 'students are complaining'...

The site doesn't allow copying so here is a bit I typed:

"Now the child has completed the third and final step of Confucian training. The first step instills fear and perpetual insecurity. The second step turns him inward and subservient. After the third step the child suffers from a particular form of permanent Stockholm Syndrome. he not only falls in love with his tormentor, now cast as his savior, but emotionally identifies with him. Coercion in a perceived inescapable confinement induces Stockholm Syndrome, while the 'en' logic rationalizes and solidifies it. The child is now mentally full grown as an Asian, evenn if he may only be a few years old. He understands the full psychological meaning of hierarchy. With this preparation at home they are easy to govern, because the state can be both the oppressor and the object of worship at the same time.

Behind these steps there is the simple push and pull mechanism that is repeatedly applied by the tormentor. He first pushes you to desperation, by threats, by inflicting pain, and by letting you realize that there is no way out ever. This heightens your awareness that your life is and will always be in his hands. Thus this animosity is doubly threatening. This push is called the threat method. When you are desperate, he then pulls you back with acts of kindness, showing his gentle side, doing you some favors (en). This gives you hope, that his love and kindness are obtainable, so long as you can please him, which sets you off on a search for ways to do so. This pull is called the 'en' method. A skillful master uses both to train a subject into a willing slave. The mechanism is not only used by parents, but by military commanders on their troops, by teachers/masters on their pupils/apprentices, by officials on their clerks, by rulers on their ministers and common subjects, by any superior on his inferiors.

This lengthy and painful process establishes for the child the Confucian parent-child relationship, which will serve as a model for any future inter-personal relations, and it significantly shortens the learning curve for him when in adulthood he inevitably encounters superiors..."

https://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/book_excerpt.asp?bookid=35138&page=1


I have often been irritated by the hierarchy thing going on here and know I don't understand the full implications of it. A couple of pages earlier in the excerpt he talks about the training that produces shy adults and their concern about what others think that was enlightening.

I found this on the Asia Times Online site.

Does anyone have any recommendations for books on Korean/Asian psychology or sociology?

[flotsam]

I think this is bloody interesting and worth posting in full: mods may let me know if they disagree.

Ya-ta, you just have to paste the pages in like you would images.

[flotsam]

[flotsam]

[flotsam]

[flotsam]

Not so sure who Mr. Wang is, the publisher doesn't have a biography posted and I couldn't find a review.

[mateomiguel]

WOW.

I've always sought an explanation for the extreme shyness and ... passivity of my older students. My elementary school students generally didn't have it until around 5th or 6th grade, but it was endemic to middle or high school students, even up to college age. I always thought it was the 20 hours a day studying to get into a good school that made them this way. But this sounds more accurate.

If this is true, it makes it much more difficult to have a close personal relationship with a korean. I thought that the constant parental influence in my relationship with a koren girl was just voluntary respect on her part. But if this text is correct, then I'm dealing with emotional abuse on on the level of cult members and kidnapping victims in the US.

And people wonder why western guys sometimes feel like they are rescuing asian women by marrying them and carrying them off. HA.

[coolsage]

Indeed. Korea is the land of Confucious' last stand; even the Chinese have written him off by now. The heirarchy created by that system is as inexcusable in this century as the caste system in India, or frankly, any system that the Muslims have worked up. If you happen to be two minutes older than the person next to you, that gives you cachet to bash your way into the elevator/subway/any queue that exists. No wonder that Koreans don't get respect anywhere else on the planet. And unfortunately, this obtuse behavior is being passed along to the next generation, thereby assuring that Koreans will continue to be reviled for another fifty years, or until they learn some civility. Don't hold your breath.

[flotsam]

The last two posters are so intelligent...I recommend everyone else duck and cover.

[JeJuJitsu]

[Kimchi Cha Cha]

I guess this might also go a fair way in explaining why many Koreans (particularly 20- and 30-somethings) are seemingly simultaneously infatuated with and resent the West. Korea continues to gain affluence, approaching similar levels to the West. Yet, at the same time Korea is bound to the Confucian social structure and seemingly can't attain the social and cultural freedoms afforded in the West, which they see either through the media (TV, movies, etc.) or first-hand. This produces a lot of angst and self-loathing which is redirected as resentment towards the West whilst at the same time wishing Korea was just like the West but, knowing it will never be under the present social structures at work.

I'm probably way off but that's just my take on things. The book seems very thoughtful-provoking, interesting and a definite must-buy. I'll have to check it out.

[Hater Depot]

This Wang guy sounds like a total crackpot. No citations, not even any anecdotes. Just a lot of pseudo-psychobabble.

[mateomiguel]

he refers to himself in the book so I'm guessing he's an asian who was raised under strict Confucianism. Sounds like a good source to me.

[jajdude]

It looks interesting. The author refers to Asian kids, but I doubt it's the same all over Asia. It seems more apt for Korea, where Confucianism still has a strong hold. I'm not sure if any other country holds these values so tightly, though they still may have some influence, such as in Japan or China.

He does seem to be acting the part of Freud, though, trying to explain complex things that are hard to understand. It seems to be just a theory.

[jinju]

If confuscianism was a poster on daves it would be flotsam.