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aristotle84
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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 Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: Who Screws You Over More? Korea VS Japan |
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I don't think this topic has been done before...so, here goes nothing:
Korea is infamous for their "hagwans".. ECC, CDI, YES, etc etc.
Japan has their notorious "eikaiwas".. Nova, Aeon, Geos, etc etc.
Sooo...
Which one is worse? The hagwans or the eikaiwas? Generally speaking of course!
Let the debate begin!!
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| I can't even believe you would stoop so low as to compare the two! Korea wins hands down on screwing over foreigners and each other. |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| I can't even believe you would stoop so low as to compare the two! Korea wins hands down on screwing over foreigners and each other. |
But the how do you explain the Japanese statistic of 9.7 fingers/hand?
Oh yeah, the Yakusa. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: |
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A Country of Liars
National Intelligence Service director-designate Kim Seung-kyu, in a lecture he gave late in May when he was justice minister, said: "The three representative crimes of our country are perjury, libel and fraud." In simple comparison, not taking into account population ratio, South Korea saw 16 times as many perjury cases in 2003 than Japan, 39 times as many libel cases and 26 times as many instances of fraud. That is extraordinarily high given Japan's population is three times our own.
The common denominator of the three crimes is lying; in short, we live in a country of liars.
by Kim Dae-joong, Chosun Ilbo (July 3, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200507/200507030027.html
Korea Fails to Shed Corrupt Image
By Kim Tong-hyung, Korea Times (October 4, 2006)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200610/kt2006100417505611990.htm
Ex-pats Describe Korea's Culture of Corruption
"Koreans always seem prepared to give out bribes. I was shocked by the culture and attitude of Koreans who feel no guilt despite breaking the law."
by Kim Hong-jin, Chosun Ilbo (December 16, 2004)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200412/200412160027.html
Public Apathetic to Anti-Corruption Drive
By Kim Rahn, Korea Times (October 23, 2006)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200610/kt2006102319520211990.htm
Stop Corruption in Academia
Editorial, JoongAng Daily (April 27, 2005)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200504/27/200504272153216879900090109011.html
Corrupt Officials to Forfeit Bonuses
by Hyun-Jin Park, Donga.com (March 13, 2006)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2006031313528
For Housing Rentals, Foreigners Easy Victims
By Byun Duk-kun, Korea Times (August 28, 2003)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200308/kt2003082818233111970.htm
Allo' Expat Japan
http://www.alloexpat.com/japan_expat_forum/
ELT News Message Board
http://www.eltnews.com/community
GajiinPot.com: Japan Forum
http://www.gaijinpot.com/bb |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Holy crap, I can't believe I am typing this. Korea, hands down. Even the worst of the worst, Nova, never reneges (sp?) on it's contracts. It writes them well, and follows them to the letter, but you never have to worry about pay, or overtime, or even vacation. Actually, Nova was good for vacation as you could take a day off anytime you wanted assuming someone could do it for you. Teachers would trade days all the time, but if your sub didn't show, it was still your fault. Still, out of the 4 big ones, ECC, AEON, NOVA, and GEOS, I worked for AEON and it is by far the best of them! I could go on and on and on. No worries in Japan except for one American guy who owned a school in the Northern area (not Hokkaido though) who was arrested for beating his teachers (and other stuff). |
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aristotle84
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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hmm i see...
yea i guess i'm not too surprised about what you guys are saying..
as a gyopo, i can say that koreans are amongst the worst in the world when it comes to ethics
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Cruise the Japan forums here on Dave's. You definitely don't see the blacklisting and the horror stories that you do coming from the Korea forums. Teachers in Japan seem much more content.
I think a lot of it has to do with the visa situation. In Japan, you own your visa, meaning you're free to quit and find a new job with much less hassle than Korea (getting a letter of release, etc). Now if Korea got with the times and changed their visa system, life would be much happier in Korea. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| aristotle84 wrote: |
as a gyopo, i can say that koreans are amongst the worst in the world when it comes to ethics
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I doubt that. The ESL industry is bad all over the world. It's not that the Koreans are horrid (though not good), it's just that the Japanese are so good on the other end when it comes to honesty. |
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aristotle84
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| aristotle84 wrote: |
as a gyopo, i can say that koreans are amongst the worst in the world when it comes to ethics
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I doubt that. The ESL industry is bad all over the world. It's not that the Koreans are horrid (though not good), it's just that the Japanese are so good on the other end when it comes to honesty. |
no, koreans in general have very little regard for ethics..
case in point, bribery is huge in korea, as well as blackmail, fraud, strongarming, etc etc etc.. the list goes on..essentially its part of the culture and it will never die
for a developed country they are really bad...
one famous example is the korean geneticist who out of thin air came up with all this data...which of course turned out to be fabricated, thus shaming all korean scientists worldwide
this doesnt go for all koreans, but generally speaking, they are one of the worst offenders of ethics |
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markhan
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: |
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I am also Gyopo but I dont share your view that it is part of their culture and that it will never die.
The fact is Korea has become democratic in record time. Don't forget that dictator Jeon Doo-Hwan ruled over just barely 20 years ago.
The reason why you see it saw much corruption crap in news these days is that because Koreans are not willing to take it anymore.
Granted Hagwon is bad because it is booming now and as for any booming industry, there will be unscrupulous owners and unqualified workers. As many will agree, for every lousy Korean Hagwon owner, there is degree-forgery, skirt-chaser, unqualifed teacher.
I am running a busiess and in getting a contract from KEPCO, you would not believe how much forms and submissions i had to send. Employees in KEPCO even had to fill out lunch (5,000 won) they had pay for me.
Korea has done in last 30 years what America and Europe did in 100 yeras, but don't forget that it is still not develped country.
| aristotle84 wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| aristotle84 wrote: |
as a gyopo, i can say that koreans are amongst the worst in the world when it comes to ethics
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I doubt that. The ESL industry is bad all over the world. It's not that the Koreans are horrid (though not good), it's just that the Japanese are so good on the other end when it comes to honesty. |
no, koreans in general have very little regard for ethics..
case in point, bribery is huge in korea, as well as blackmail, fraud, strongarming, etc etc etc.. the list goes on..essentially its part of the culture and it will never die
for a developed country they are really bad...
one famous example is the korean geneticist who out of thin air came up with all this data...which of course turned out to be fabricated, thus shaming all korean scientists worldwide
this doesnt go for all koreans, but generally speaking, they are one of the worst offenders of ethics |
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chilgok007
Joined: 28 May 2006
Location: Chilgok
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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This is all second-hand, as I have yet to stick my finger into the Japanese pot, but from what I've heard I have to agree with everyone whose posted so far. A lot of my friends from university ended up working ESL in Japan, and no one complained about the actual working conditions. All of their (very few, minor) complaints were cultural/social.
And, I don't think it has anything to do with the Koreans "getting their rocks off" to screwing people over. I think the Japanese are just better at(or more used to) dealing with foreigners. Keep in mind that up until about 100 years ago, other than occasional incursions by the Japanese and Chinese, the Koreans had very little contact with Westerners. |
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babtangee
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Location: OMG! Charlie has me surrounded!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| markhan wrote: |
As many will agree, for every lousy Korean Hagwon owner, there is degree-forgery, skirt-chaser, unqualifed teacher.
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What has skirt-chasing got to do with anything? One could probably call me a skirt-chaser. My wonjang is certainly a skirt-chaser. It's not something I'd hold against him. Certainly wouldn't assume it makes him an incompetent or lousy hagwon owner. What the hell? Are all Foreign teachers supposed to be either gay, celebate or female? Please do explain. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| babtangee wrote: |
| markhan wrote: |
As many will agree, for every lousy Korean Hagwon owner, there is degree-forgery, skirt-chaser, unqualifed teacher.
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What has skirt-chasing got to do with anything? One could probably call me a skirt-chaser. My wonjang is certainly a skirt-chaser. It's not something I'd hold against him. Certainly wouldn't assume it makes him an incompetent or lousy hagwon owner. What the hell? Are all Foreign teachers supposed to be either gay, celebate or female? Please do explain. |
He might mean skirt wearing students, which is bad. |
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markhan
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| babtangee wrote: |
| What has skirt-chasing got to do with anything? One could probably call me a skirt-chaser. My wonjang is certainly a skirt-chaser. It's not something I'd hold against him. Certainly wouldn't assume it makes him an incompetent or lousy hagwon owner. What the hell? Are all Foreign teachers supposed to be either gay, celebate or female? Please do explain. |
Of course it does. When I say "skirt-chaser" you and I both know that it does not simply mean men liking women. Dont play that innocent game. If a black men who is a teacher goes after numerous white students in the US, you would not think that white guys would not hold that against the teacher? |
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babtangee
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Location: OMG! Charlie has me surrounded!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| markhan wrote: |
Of course it does. When I say "skirt-chaser" you and I both know that it does not simply mean men liking women. Dont play that innocent game. If a black men who is a teacher goes after numerous white students in the US, you would not think that white guys would not hold that against the teacher? |
Give me a break.
| markhan wrote: |
| As many will agree, for every lousy Korean Hagwon owner, there is degree-forgery, skirt-chaser, unqualifed teacher. |
How often do you hear about foreign teachers pursuing their underage students? Seriously? Give me three cases in the past year. It's a non-issue outside of "Bad Foreigner Fantasy Land". Hear a bit about the Korean teachers doing so, but that's largely hersay and would indicates some degree of prejudice just to think it worthy of mention.
If a black man what...? If a teacher was pursuing underage students in the US I'm certain it would be an issue regardless of his colour. WTF has his colour got to do with it? You're a riot, dude. |
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