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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: hagwon bankruptcy and getting paid |
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Well, so far I went to the Labour Board, but I really don't put much stock in the Labour Board doing something. They said they would try to call her, and convince her that there are repercussions. If it does not work, I fax in a form calling for action to be taken against her some paper he showed me that talk about a criminal process. However, she is bankrupt.
So what can I do? Can I realistically expect a dime? How do I get some legal aid if necessary? |
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markhan
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: hagwon bankruptcy and getting paid |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
Well, so far I went to the Labour Board, but I really don't put much stock in the Labour Board doing something. They said they would try to call her, and convince her that there are repercussions. If it does not work, I fax in a form calling for action to be taken against her some paper he showed me that talk about a criminal process. However, she is bankrupt.
So what can I do? Can I realistically expect a dime? How do I get some legal aid if necessary? |
What would most Koreans do in your case? They would most likely curse their bad luck and just move on. If she is indeed truly bankrupt, what more do you want from her? Do you want her to go to jail? Korean Labor Board, as you have already said, will not do anything as they most likely will symphathize with a person who went bankrupt. Being bankrupt in Korea can be, well,, hard. She is already down and out. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: hagwon bankruptcy and getting paid |
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| markhan wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
Well, so far I went to the Labour Board, but I really don't put much stock in the Labour Board doing something. They said they would try to call her, and convince her that there are repercussions. If it does not work, I fax in a form calling for action to be taken against her some paper he showed me that talk about a criminal process. However, she is bankrupt.
So what can I do? Can I realistically expect a dime? How do I get some legal aid if necessary? |
What would most Koreans do in your case? They would most likely curse their bad luck and just move on. If she is indeed truly bankrupt, what more do you want from her? Do you want her to go to jail? Korean Labor Board, as you have already said, will not do anything as they most likely will symphathize with a person who went bankrupt. Being bankrupt in Korea can be, well,, hard. She is already down and out. |
I am not really concerned what Koreans would do. Korea is asking for native speakers, and they provide us with contracts. They are obligated to respect contracts to foreigners whether they are businessmen or teachers. It is that simple.
She lied to me several times including didn't start paying my pension until August when I started in April, and she underreported my income. Not paying for a person's pension for several months and then reporting the incorrect income is illegal.
Two, she engaged in human trafficing type behaviour trying to sell me to a recruiter when she was closing her hagwon and trying to extort money to the tune of 500 bucks to give me my release letter and salary, which I eventually never got. She told me I had to use her recruiter because she had my "paperwork". I asked her "Does the recruiter work for immigration?". She said no, of course. So, I told her she has no papers, and this is false. Back home, at least, she would be either fined heavily or go to jail. It is not simply about pay; it is also gross violations of human rights to try to sell someone to another person. Maybe Koreans don't think, according to you, not getting paid is no big deal, but we do.
The Labour Board did not sympathize with her. The fellow sympathized with me because I present so many papers of evidence showing her dishonesty from day one. I am also going to get some evidence from the Pension Office tomorrow. Either I get my money, or she gets a fine or both. She made her bed, so she should sleep in it. Like hel*, would I move on. My parents didn't raise me to be a little sheep. I did my job,
honoured my contract, and she broke major laws. You do the crime, you should do the time.
She went bankrupt largely because of her greed. Her greed led her to so many errors. As the Bible says, "The love of money is the root of all evil".
Last edited by Adventurer on Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| What would most Koreans do in your case? They would most likely curse their bad luck and just move on. If she is indeed truly bankrupt, what more do you want from her? Do you want her to go to jail? Korean Labor Board, as you have already said, will not do anything as they most likely will symphathize with a person who went bankrupt. Being bankrupt in Korea can be, well,, hard. She is already down and out. |
What? The employees, including teachers, did their jobs and EARNED their pay and benefits. WHO CARES what "most Koreans" would do in this case? This is a teacher who EARNED pay and benefits that weren't received. The sympathy should go to the innocent employees who worked hard- no one should show sympathy for someone who can't run a business.
Markhan- do you own a hogwan? If not, then why the sympathy for someone who cheated a teacher out of pay and benefits?
Why FLAME someone for fighting for something they earned? |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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What? The employees, including teachers, did their jobs and EARNED their pay and benefits. WHO CARES what "most Koreans" would do in this case? This is a teacher who EARNED pay and benefits that weren't received. The sympathy should go to the innocent employees who worked hard- no one should show sympathy for someone who can't run a business.
Markhan- do you own a hogwan? If not, then why the sympathy for someone who cheated a teacher out of pay and benefits?
Why FLAME someone for fighting for something they earned? |
Agreed.
The decent thing to do if you know you are going bankrupt ( You usually have a great deal of notice) is two pay the remaining salary EARNED and then give the employee time off to find a new job and housing. What many/most hagwons do is make the employee work till the last minute with no time off and then try to get out of paying them. Then the employee is forced to find a job within several days to a week. |
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plokiju
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Is she bankrupt or is her business bankrupt?
I've heard going the criminal route can only affect her business and if the business is bankrupt then there's little you can do to get your money. Taking her to small claims court (civil case) however entitles you to her personal property. At least that's what the labour hotline told me. Have you given them a call? The number is 1350. |
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alffy
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hyperbole aside, Adventurer, what do you want here? If the old hag truly is bankrupt, and the Labor Board is effectively telling you they are powerless to rectify your situation, what are you seeking?
If advice on legal action, I know just from perusing these boards over the last few months that the Byzantine legal system in Korea is tortuous, especially for foreigners not planning long tenures in the country.
If it is sympathy, you have it, as it sounds you have seen the royal shafting.
I think Mr. Han has one sound piece of advice for you here: "If she is indeed truly bankrupt, what more do you want from her?" You can't, as they say, get blood from a stone.
Get the Labor Board to do what they can (which doesn't sound like much), report her to all the other authorities you think might be interested (you indicate Pension Office, perhaps, what about taxes?), get as many people involved as possible, and maybe, just maybe, the penalties will be great enough to keep her out of the business and forstall her screwing any future foreigners similarlly.
Unfortunately, it sounds though, like you may be out of luck here. If I recall from some earlier threads, you aren't planning a long future in country, so a protracted legal fight, even ending in your favor, appears fruitless and unproductive to you.
You have my sympathy, for what that's worth. |
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Sod_em_and_begorrah
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: hagwon bankruptcy and getting paid |
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| markhan wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
Well, so far I went to the Labour Board, but I really don't put much stock in the Labour Board doing something. They said they would try to call her, and convince her that there are repercussions. If it does not work, I fax in a form calling for action to be taken against her some paper he showed me that talk about a criminal process. However, she is bankrupt.
So what can I do? Can I realistically expect a dime? How do I get some legal aid if necessary? |
What would most Koreans do in your case? They would most likely curse their bad luck and just move on. If she is indeed truly bankrupt, what more do you want from her? Do you want her to go to jail? Korean Labor Board, as you have already said, will not do anything as they most likely will symphathize with a person who went bankrupt. Being bankrupt in Korea can be, well,, hard. She is already down and out. |
Personally, I hope she does get punished. Too many bosses, not only in Korea but in other parts of the world, have zero regard for their workers. If she was an honest person, she would have told the OP that the business was failing and released him from his contract. In fairness to yourself, you didn't know that she was a lying, cheating, deceitful toe rag of a woman who defrauded the OP. But even so, your jumping to defend her shows a bit of naivete at least. |
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markhan
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: hagwon bankruptcy and getting paid |
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| Sod_em_and_begorrah wrote: |
| markhan wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
Well, so far I went to the Labour Board, but I really don't put much stock in the Labour Board doing something. They said they would try to call her, and convince her that there are repercussions. If it does not work, I fax in a form calling for action to be taken against her some paper he showed me that talk about a criminal process. However, she is bankrupt.
So what can I do? Can I realistically expect a dime? How do I get some legal aid if necessary? |
What would most Koreans do in your case? They would most likely curse their bad luck and just move on. If she is indeed truly bankrupt, what more do you want from her? Do you want her to go to jail? Korean Labor Board, as you have already said, will not do anything as they most likely will symphathize with a person who went bankrupt. Being bankrupt in Korea can be, well,, hard. She is already down and out. |
Personally, I hope she does get punished. Too many bosses, not only in Korea but in other parts of the world, have zero regard for their workers. If she was an honest person, she would have told the OP that the business was failing and released him from his contract. In fairness to yourself, you didn't know that she was a lying, cheating, deceitful toe rag of a woman who defrauded the OP. But even so, your jumping to defend her shows a bit of naivete at least. |
Actually, I wish I was naive in this case and no, I am not defending her.
I have very low regard for Koreans who defraud foreigner for when foreigners go back to their home country, they will complain how lousy Korea was.
But at the same time, I have seen some Koreans who went bankrupt and let me tell you, it can be excruciatingly difficult. Unlike in the State where bankruptee is protect from the creditors and they cannot be evicted from the home they own, Koreans do not have such safety net when they go backrupt.
It is for this reason why I have stated, "if she is truly bankrupt.."
She could have been just an average woman who took desperate, albeit illegal measures to keep afloat. I am not condoning her action but damm, it is a bitc* being bankrupt in Korea. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| alffy wrote: |
Hyperbole aside, Adventurer, what do you want here? If the old hag truly is bankrupt, and the Labor Board is effectively telling you they are powerless to rectify your situation, what are you seeking?
If advice on legal action, I know just from perusing these boards over the last few months that the Byzantine legal system in Korea is tortuous, especially for foreigners not planning long tenures in the country.
If it is sympathy, you have it, as it sounds you have seen the royal shafting.
I think Mr. Han has one sound piece of advice for you here: "If she is indeed truly bankrupt, what more do you want from her?" You can't, as they say, get blood from a stone.
Get the Labor Board to do what they can (which doesn't sound like much), report her to all the other authorities you think might be interested (you indicate Pension Office, perhaps, what about taxes?), get as many people involved as possible, and maybe, just maybe, the penalties will be great enough to keep her out of the business and forstall her screwing any future foreigners similarlly.
Unfortunately, it sounds though, like you may be out of luck here. If I recall from some earlier threads, you aren't planning a long future in country, so a protracted legal fight, even ending in your favor, appears fruitless and unproductive to you.
You have my sympathy, for what that's worth. |
I am here for a year. I am not simply doing this for me. I am doing it for my comrades in teaching. In the U.S. and Canada we punish people for extortion. Of course, I want my salary. If not, I want her heavily fined. If you simply just let someone off the hook because they filed for bankruptcy then you are doing other foreigners a disservice, and frankly I think fighting for principals is important. A friend from Texas fought the Dallas Independent School Distrcit and won. He fought based on principal. And if filing in civil small claims' court gets some of her property, well I am entitled to it. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:38 am Post subject: Re: hagwon bankruptcy and getting paid |
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| markhan wrote: |
| Sod_em_and_begorrah wrote: |
| markhan wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
Well, so far I went to the Labour Board, but I really don't put much stock in the Labour Board doing something. They said they would try to call her, and convince her that there are repercussions. If it does not work, I fax in a form calling for action to be taken against her some paper he showed me that talk about a criminal process. However, she is bankrupt.
So what can I do? Can I realistically expect a dime? How do I get some legal aid if necessary? |
What would most Koreans do in your case? They would most likely curse their bad luck and just move on. If she is indeed truly bankrupt, what more do you want from her? Do you want her to go to jail? Korean Labor Board, as you have already said, will not do anything as they most likely will symphathize with a person who went bankrupt. Being bankrupt in Korea can be, well,, hard. She is already down and out. |
Personally, I hope she does get punished. Too many bosses, not only in Korea but in other parts of the world, have zero regard for their workers. If she was an honest person, she would have told the OP that the business was failing and released him from his contract. In fairness to yourself, you didn't know that she was a lying, cheating, deceitful toe rag of a woman who defrauded the OP. But even so, your jumping to defend her shows a bit of naivete at least. |
Actually, I wish I was naive in this case and no, I am not defending her.
I have very low regard for Koreans who defraud foreigner for when foreigners go back to their home country, they will complain how lousy Korea was.
But at the same time, I have seen some Koreans who went bankrupt and let me tell you, it can be excruciatingly difficult. Unlike in the State where bankruptee is protect from the creditors and they cannot be evicted from the home they own, Koreans do not have such safety net when they go backrupt.
It is for this reason why I have stated, "if she is truly bankrupt.."
She could have been just an average woman who took desperate, albeit illegal measures to keep afloat. I am not condoning her action but damm, it is a bitc* being bankrupt in Korea. |
Mark Han, that does not apply to her. Her husband called a friend recruiter of mine who has your same last name as you, Han, and is Korean a mother f**** and my friend with your last name does not share your opinion since she was trying to extort money in condition of giving me a release letter. Furthermore, rewind to November 2005 when she bought the place when one of my friends worked there before me, and she ruined the school out of greed. She was too cheap to pay for advertising, could not speak the language, and she didn't spend on a Christmas tree in December 2005 when he was there. She wasn't in trouble, then. She is a duplicitous person who smiles and acts politely and has illusions of grandeur and will do anything for money. That is the person she is. I don't doubt she got desperate. She was the victim of her own greed, in the end. She was the same kind of person even before I came when my friend worked there, so it is not that way, Han.
Last edited by Adventurer on Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: |
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But at the same time, I have seen some Koreans who went bankrupt and let me tell you, it can be excruciatingly difficult. Unlike in the State where bankruptee is protect from the creditors and they cannot be evicted from the home they own, Koreans do not have such safety net when they go backrupt.
It is for this reason why I have stated, "if she is truly bankrupt.."
She could have been just an average woman who took desperate, albeit illegal measures to keep afloat. I am not condoning her action but damm, it is a bitc* being bankrupt in Korea. |
Who really cares? That woman made her bed- so now, she's going to lie in it.
Markhan-You FLAMED a teacher for trying to get what they earned. That says more about YOU- why the flame? Sure sounds like it came from someone who owns or is the director of a hogwan. Come clean. |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Cheats and liars shouldn't be allowed to flourish.
Lies and cheating infects and disadvantages honest people.
"Foreigners" (혹시 MarkHan은 한국분 아니신가요?) |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm. It is hard to get money from the person once the business is gone. I think you have to file some paperwor at the courthouse. I hope you try to get the money so everyone will know how to do it. I agree...don't let it go. Get information about her:
1: Where does she live, exactly, and does she own it?
2: What car does she drive (licence number)?
3: The Korean Spelling of her name.
4: The business registration number (the paper on the wall)
These things may help you get some money back..it is possible to lock (lien) her house and car until money is paid but I am not sure how. I saw it happen once. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| bellum99 wrote: |
Hmm. It is hard to get money from the person once the business is gone. I think you have to file some paperwor at the courthouse. I hope you try to get the money so everyone will know how to do it. I agree...don't let it go. Get information about her:
1: Where does she live, exactly, and does she own it?
2: What car does she drive (licence number)?
3: The Korean Spelling of her name.
4: The business registration number (the paper on the wall)
These things may help you get some money back..it is possible to lock (lien) her house and car until money is paid but I am not sure how. I saw it happen once. |
The government has her name and address. I am waiting for the Labour Board to tell me if they were successful or not in getting her to agree to pay me. In a way, I don't want to go to court. I can't keep on leaving work and making all these trips. But, I am going to try to keep on with this though I don't really know what is going, and I have no lawyer, not that I can afford a lawyer. I am going to have to make some phone calls and get some more advice from someone in Seoul because I don't put much stock in the Labour Board being able to do anything. She can just choose to ignore what they say. |
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