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gregoryallen
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Location: atlanta ga
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 Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: waygooks political lean: right or left |
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Most seem of the humanistic left lean but quite a few sound very Supply side, if-ya-know-whaddi-mean. Dump you input here. Think it would make a nice thread.  |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Most seem of the humanistic left lean but quite a few sound very Supply side, if-ya-know-whaddi-mean. |
(bold)
not really. But I get the gist. My views have emerged from a time unknown.
There's some lefty stuff in there:
the state is to be worshipped as a GOD,
the state purse is more important than individual concerns - example smoking,
health services should be state controlled,
public transport should be state controlled,
prohibition of addictive drugs must be smashed into oblivion and provision should be the control of the state and not the black market,
no class distinctions,
high public spending, belief in welfare, belief in a minimum wage,
belief that races should inter-mingle,
fervently anti-religion, totally pro-science,
belief in abortion, belief in euthanasia,
support for drug-use
but some of it is straight out of the Far Right book:
strict immigration policies on a need-only basis,
militarism,
staunch defence of British colonialism,
belief that invading foreign countries has contributed more to mankind than would otherwise have been the case,
belief in capital punishment in certain circumstances,
belief in retribution,
belief in fervent nationalism,
staunch belief in a nuclear deterrant, total rejection of anti-nuke arguments,
rejection of the view that democracy is the best way to organize society,
admiration of Right Wing societies that put the state first,
support for anti-democratic policies that seek to crush all that taints the state).
Bit of a mixed bag. However, when ever I do a political survey, I always come out a centrist, which always seems odd. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Labour voter for sure, spinoza. Me libertarian with belief in maximisation of individual rights, economically and socially. Despise taxes as much as religious interference in state affairs. |
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Delirium's Brother
Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: Out in that field with Rumi, waiting for you to join us!
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Most seem of the humanistic left lean but quite a few sound very Supply side, if-ya-know-whaddi-mean. |
(bold)
not really. But I get the gist. My views have emerged from a time unknown.
There's some lefty stuff in there:
the state is to be worshipped as a GOD,
the state purse is more important than individual concerns - example smoking,
health services should be state controlled,
public transport should be state controlled,
prohibition of addictive drugs must be smashed into oblivion and provision should be the control of the state and not the black market,
no class distinctions,
high public spending, belief in welfare, belief in a minimum wage,
belief that races should inter-mingle,
fervently anti-religion, totally pro-science,
belief in abortion, belief in euthanasia,
support for drug-use
but some of it is straight out of the Far Right book:
strict immigration policies on a need-only basis,
militarism,
staunch defence of British colonialism,
belief that invading foreign countries has contributed more to mankind than would otherwise have been the case,
belief in capital punishment in certain circumstances,
belief in retribution,
belief in fervent nationalism,
staunch belief in a nuclear deterrant, total rejection of anti-nuke arguments,
rejection of the view that democracy is the best way to organize society,
admiration of Right Wing societies that put the state first,
support for anti-democratic policies that seek to crush all that taints the state).
Bit of a mixed bag. However, when ever I do a political survey, I always come out a centrist, which always seems odd. |
SPINOZA, just when I start thinking you're an interesting guy... you freak me out (again)!!! This must be the third or fourth time! A `Bit of a mixed bag'?!! Dude, if you're a centrist; I'm the Avatar of Chaos.
Last edited by Delirium's Brother on Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:24 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
| ...I always come out a centrist, which always seems odd. |
Odd indeed. I would not call anyone who agrees with Michael Moore's politics "a centrist." |
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gregoryallen
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Location: atlanta ga
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: politics |
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"the state is to be worshipped as a GOD,"
Is there really hard evidence that left-wing factions are more pro-state? Leftwingers tend to congregate in cities hence more taxes more services and rightwingers congregate in more suburban areas.
Are blue laws in rural areas similar to nonsmoking rules in city, liberal areas? I tend to associate "the state" with police. Aren't police just as prevalent in rural, suburban areas as in liberal cities?
Leftwingers aren't anti-religous either. REVERAND Martin Luther King, Jimmy Carter, just to name two jesus loving hippies. Ton of others. PC Bong time almost running out.
[/quote] |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:08 am Post subject: |
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My perspective:
I'm consistently libertarian, but I part with my libertarian peers on the issues of immigration and health care. I believe that immigration should be restricted due to the twin cancers of religion and nationalism and that the state ought to offer national health insurance but the industry itself be kept private and for-profit.
I believe that religion and nationalism are diseases of the mind, that prove powerful tools to control the dumb. If religion is the opiate of the masses, nationalism is the opiate of the very dumb. Worshiping a flag is absolutely no different than worshiping an imaginary friend (other than, ahem, I can actually see a flag..).
People ought to be free to do as they please, so long as they cause no involuntary harm to others. |
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gregoryallen
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Location: atlanta ga
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| 100 percent with you. Politics is basically based on economics and economics don't fit every region. Especially in America economics trumps almost every ideological stance. If pwerful people can get rich off the drug war or prison system then rights be damned. Seems to me, speaking off liberarianism, most people that claim to represent it appear to be closet right-wingers that only want the abolition of the precious dinero. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Ah, one more un-libertarian position. I believe, firmly, that the state ought to care for those who are unable to care for themselves, and haven't the family to do so. I spent 5 years working with very disabled kids, and I can't imagine a society that does not help them with social spending. Every time I pass a disabled person begging on the streets in developing nations, I become more and more attached to state assistance for them. Such a horrible world, we live in. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Ah, one more un-libertarian position. I believe, firmly, that the state ought to care for those who are unable to care for themselves, and haven't the family to do so. I spent 5 years working with very disabled kids, and I can't imagine a society that does not help them with social spending. Every time I pass a disabled person begging on the streets in developing nations, I become more and more attached to state assistance for them. Such a horrible world, we live in. |
This is not necessarily an un-libertarian position. Given that children are not adults and cannot make informed decisions on their own behalf nor act in their own interests, the state may have a role in protecting them from harm. How far this goes is the crux of the debate. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, that is very true. But I would extend the help to adults who are unable to function as well. By this, I mean the most disabled. Those who have to be fed and washed. I know the slope doth slide, but I'm very prepared to be on the side of compassion for this one. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Yes, that is very true. But I would extend the help to adults who are unable to function as well. By this, I mean the most disabled. Those who have to be fed and washed. I know the slope doth slide, but I'm very prepared to be on the side of compassion for this one. |
Then we cycle into arguments of limits and dependency. Sure there is a case to be made for the most extreme cases and they could well fall under the same aegis as children do. I'm not really sure what the benchmark would be in such a case. BTW, happy new year to you and yours, BJWD. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Neo con....we're sensitive |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| gregory allen, presumably under the influence, wrote: |
"the state is to be worshipped as a GOD,"
Is there really hard evidence that left-wing factions are more pro-state? Leftwingers tend to congregate in cities hence more taxes more services and rightwingers congregate in more suburban areas. |
Why are these two sentences in the same paragraph?
The answer to the first sentence is an obvious YES�.leftism is all about the state and organization and increased equality. Left wing politics necessitate the state. The second sentence may well be true or false for all I care. Goodness only knows why you deem it relevant.
| gregoryallen wrote: |
1. Are blue laws in rural areas similar to nonsmoking rules in city, liberal areas?
2. I tend to associate "the state" with police.
3. Aren't police just as prevalent in rural, suburban areas as in liberal cities? |
1. I haven't the faintest idea and frankly don't care.
2. no � the state most certainly is not all about the police. Public services like police are part of it and very necessary. The police is a positive entity by and large.
3. So freaking what? 
| gregoryallen wrote: |
| Leftwingers aren't necessarily anti-religous either. REVERAND Martin Luther King, Jimmy Carter, just to name two jesus loving hippies. Ton of others. PC Bong time almost running out. |
The big red "necessarily" is my addition. To qualify as a remotely worthwhile assertion, your sentence should've included it, as without it, it is complete rubbish.
We can�t generalize about religious views amongst the broad thing that is the left. Generally however, the complete lack of toleration for religion is the stuff of the far left, and good on them. Anti-religion arguments are generally left wing in nature. The vehement left seeks to crush. Religion and all its moronic, scabrous proponents, are amongst those first for the chop if we are to fulfil our potential as a species.
| BJWD wrote: |
| I believe that religion and nationalism are diseases of the mind, that prove powerful tools to control the dumb. If religion is the opiate of the masses, nationalism is the opiate of the very dumb. Worshiping a flag is absolutely no different than worshiping an imaginary friend (other than, ahem, I can actually see a flag..). |
Oh deary me, no.
The reader already very familiar with my views on nationalism can skip the following, because you�ve heard it all before. I�m sick of this, but because BJWD is kinda cool in his own way, I�m gonna say it all again.
Nationalism is like loving your parents. If you�re dissatisfied with your parents, you�d better have a damn good reason for not loving them and returning the devotion they have given to you. Even many victims of abusive, terrible parents refuse to hate them, such is the bond between a parent and a child, and so too a state and a person.
I am expensive. I need to be fed and looked after and educated. My mother did all that, much of it at least. Thus my mother � even though she pisses me off sometimes � I love very much.
My state has provided me with roads which I didn�t build and am incapable of building, hospitals I didn�t build, schools I didn�t build, a langauge I can speak far beyond my state�s shores, all manner of things that I take for granted far too numerous to explore. My state is like the good mother who busts her arse to raise, love, protect her child. The likenesses between the state and the parents are profoundly apparent and I never, ever expect to be convinced that nationalism is not of the highest moral good (good nationalism that is, not the bad kind, which for length concerns I don�t wanna go in to).
It�s completely wrong to say nationalism is bad and frankly it undermines your points about Europe, BJWD. Nationalism is a big no-no these days. If you�re a nationalist, if you simply like your country and wish to discuss how great it is to be from it, you are automatically considered dumb. This is one aspect (possibly there are more) to the left that I absolutely loath and seek to smash. Consequently, when folks emigrate, they fail to be fully assimilated much of the time. It is always the white European who must assimilate, the reverse is Right Wing hectoring, apparently. This is most unlike the USA, one country under God. I hate the God bit, but this element of U.S. ideology is my favorite by far�..they forged a patriotic nation out of people from all over the world. They achieved what Europeans - who are great in many respects but not this one - will never achieve unless they get their flags out and start heartily singing their national anthems again, like the good old days (the era prior to World War One being particularly golden). Increased nationalism leads to an increased family of all colors and races, it DOES NOT seek to exclude.
More generally, the state SIMPLY IS god. It�s the closest thing observable that resembles such an entity. The state makes war, whether you agree or not. The state helps itself to 25% at least of your earnings, you have no choice. The state gives you much more in return for your investment (that's debatable I guess - at least it should do!). The state provides all manner of things that you personally cannot provide for yourself. The state makes the rules. The state punishes. Without the state, life would be an unbearable chaos that would simply end in a state of some kind. The state is inevitable. State worship is to be the new religion. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
My perspective:
I'm consistently libertarian, but I part with my libertarian peers on the issues of immigration and health care. I believe that immigration should be restricted due to the twin cancers of religion and nationalism and that the state ought to offer national health insurance but the industry itself be kept private and for-profit.
I believe that religion and nationalism are diseases of the mind, that prove powerful tools to control the dumb. If religion is the opiate of the masses, nationalism is the opiate of the very dumb. Worshiping a flag is absolutely no different than worshiping an imaginary friend (other than, ahem, I can actually see a flag..).
People ought to be free to do as they please, so long as they cause no involuntary harm to others. |
All right why is national a disease and having universal health care that is not-for-profit a disease? I suppose you will say it makes economic sense to have for profit health care. Yes, but 50 million Americans are without health care. So, the system is not working for those people. When I was in the U.S., I could not even get health care.
When I was no longer working as a teacher, and I tried to get health care I was rejected. I was told because I used my health insurance to go to the back doctor and had some scoliosis, that I had to be rejected. I had no idea that would happen because I was used to a Canadian perspective that health care would be available to all. From what I understood, if I wanted to get some kind of health insurance, I would have had to pay 500 bucks a month. Or, I should have lied on my application. I have zero faith in the U.S. health care system, as a result.
You are against illegal immigration. Many nationalists who want to protect their cultural heritage share that view. As far as religion, you are stating that someone is ill if they believe in God. That is a relative judgement. It is quite relative, amigo. How can you say it is right or wrong. |
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