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English is, like, you know, becoming degraded.
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coolsage



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:19 pm    Post subject: English is, like, you know, becoming degraded. Reply with quote

I suppose that I notice this phenomenon because I've been here a while and because I'm of a different demographic, but the level of English spoken by many 'native speakers' who have just stepped off the boat, particularly those under the age of thirty, is suspect. I'm reluctant to tar all those otherwise articulate and intelligent individuals with a broad brush, but the next time I hear 'like, you know' emanating from the face of someone who is ostensibly here to impart language, I might just throttle him/her. Call me a purist, but these 'expressions' are lazy language, reflective of a low-end pop- culture , but without validity in teaching the language. So if you are one of those who, like, uses those terms, you know, keep them to yourself, or at least, out of the classroom. It's tough enough imparting second-language to willing recipients without having to explain where the 'empty' terms fit in. And, frankly, nobody over the age of nineteen should be talking this way. So, like, you know, that's all I have to say on, you know, this subject.
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naw
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: English is, like, you know, becoming degraded. Reply with quote

coolsage wrote:
...these 'expressions' are lazy language, reflective of a low-end pop-culture

True. What's wrong with that.

If I heard a Korean student use those sorts of expressions in speech I'd, like, you know, laugh. Laughing And it would add some character often lacking in ESL teaching materials.

Next year another teacher will come and teach those students other expressions. All fine and good.
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yoda



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: Incheon, South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel the same way at times. But, in the end, the true test of what they should learn depends on their motivation for learning it.

If they wish crisp, clear, articulate thought expressed in English then, perhaps, it's best to avoid that kind of language.

On the other hand, if your students wish to communicate with culturally degraded under-30s from North America, then they may have to be competent at the very least in understanding such expressions.

Oh! The degradation of the English language has been pondered long before under-30s showed up in Korea.

I particulary like Orwell's point about staleness of imagery and lack of precision. Although his preference for Anglo-Saxon words over Greek, Latin, or French is a bit extreme. Reminds me of many of my friends with Korean Lit degrees wanting to eradicate Chinese roots from Korean
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I_Am_Wrong



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: whatever

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

like, you know, there's nothing wrong with adding some flavour to the language in order to make learning it a bit more fun. However, I do concur that there are some things that should be left out of the classroom. I will vehemently defend that there is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching slang and that it is an essential.
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So if you are one of those who, like, uses those terms, you know, keep them to yourself, or at least, out of the classroom.


So, like, thanks for the tip. Cuz, you know, the next time one of my students asks me what something means from an episode of, say, Friends, I'll just say "no".
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Kim Jong Jordan



Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I_Am_Wrong wrote:
like, you know, there's nothing wrong with adding some flavour to the language in order to make learning it a bit more fun. However, I do concur that there are some things that should be left out of the classroom. I will vehemently defend that there is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching slang and that it is an essential.


Slang is a very real thing in the English language. Although it may not be textbook proper, it is spoken by everyone. As long as you don't make it the basis of your lessons, incorporating it to the extent that the students have an awareness of it will only benefit them because the use of slang IS so widespread.

Cheers!
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chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son Deureo! wrote:
Quote:
So if you are one of those who, like, uses those terms, you know, keep them to yourself, or at least, out of the classroom.


So, like, thanks for the tip. Cuz, you know, the next time one of my students asks me what something means from an episode of, say, Friends, I'll just say "no".


Exactly. Exposure to contemporary uses of english is important to ESL students. I'd prefer to educate them on the full spectrum of conversational usages, so they understand what they are encountering, if/when they go abroad or when they are watching media that has a lot of contemporary slang.
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as they know it IS slang and hence when its use might be appropriate. This is pretty advanced stuff ....
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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:06 am    Post subject: yes Reply with quote

I didn't know I was under the watchglass 24 hours a day, just because I work as a teacher.
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Lizara



Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, see, I talk how I want when I'm out of school, and how I talk with my friends is an entirely different matter from what I teach my students. That, and most of my students are beginners or close to it and they don't seem to pick up much of anything except for the official school curriculum which we spend tons of time practicing, and obviously I'm not going to spend that many hours drilling them on acceptable uses of "like, you know." Although that would be kind of funny...
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crazylemongirl



Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the day that english stops evolving and changing is the day it's relegated to the status of latin.
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

or French ....
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bosintang



Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I_Am_Wrong wrote:
like, you know, there's nothing wrong with adding some flavour to the language in order to make learning it a bit more fun. However, I do concur that there are some things that should be left out of the classroom. I will vehemently defend that there is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching slang and that it is an essential.


I disagree. Slang is slang for a reason. It's a language subset, in essence a private language, only valid to a certain group of people at a certain time. We're not in the business of teaching people to be colourful and witty, we're in the business of teaching people to communicate.

On a semi-related note, has anyone here ever read "Life of Pi"?

- Are you bamboozling me?
- I assure you sir, there is no bamboozlement on this train.
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dull artist



Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Location: Osan

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: English is, like, you know, becoming degraded. Reply with quote

coolsage wrote:
I suppose that I notice this phenomenon because I've been here a while and because I'm of a different demographic


Just what is your demographic? Should we be teaching these kids Olde English? I can't speak for all English speaking countries, but in American English the language is decorated wtih slang, which makes the commuincation even more precise. For a Korean in California, the many forms of the word 'dude' can be a most valuable tool.
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