Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Voyeur]

I work at a pretty professional Hogwan chain. Nothing really shady going on.

But over the last 2 years I have noticed a trend. Everytime they need to make a fix to improve themselves, it generally tends to be at the expense of the teacher in terms of asking them to do more out-of-class prep, housekeeping stuff, training, whatever. But the contract itself doesn't change. They just ask you to do a bit more, and a bit more, and a bit more.

It is like they do not care about how many non-teaching, non-paid hours you rack up.

Is this normal? My manager explained that ESL is just like any job and nobody ever works to the very letter of their contract if they hope to succeed in life. And it is natural for the employer to ask a little more from their employees bit by bit over time without having to pay for it explicitly *each time* (that is what re-signing, performance evaluations, and raises AFTER your contract are for). He says this is the natural way of all jobs and it is counterbalanced by the employee getting better and better and more efficient at tgheir jobs. He calls it progress. He feels that overall it is a wash - the employee does the stuff that was hard and took awhile for him to do early on faster and faster and with the saved time the employer asks a little bit more from him. In the end it is a wash. Furthermore, he points out the business is very competitive and Hogwans need to offer more and more to compete but can't always raise their salaries each time they need a little something extra from their teachers to match the competition.

I'm not sure I buy this. But is this a common attitude? Is it normal to get nickel and dimed to death over the course of a year contract in terms of little decisions that each individually eat up a bit more of your time with your salary staying the same until maybe after ytou resign? Each decision seems reasonable and usually does improve the quality of service offered or is a needed solution. And each seems like a little sacrifice to do. But then they keep coming. And they start adding up.

Anyways, rambling and I do like my school overall. But I am tired of them always asking a little more from me. When is enough enough? When can I JUST do what I am contractually obligated to do and paid for, not any more, AND remain in their good graces and not be a black sheep?

Maybe that is like asking when the world will be fair and the trees made out of cotton candy. But I am just frustrated.

[spyro25]

stop working at hagwons. unless they pay a LOT of money every month that is.

[spyro25]

mind you are you saying its different in any other field? i'm sure whatever field you work, unless you are self employed, your boss is always going to ask you for more and more.

[khyber]

1) If it's in your contract, (something vague like "Help the school in any way") what can you do?

2) if it's not in your contract and your boss says "people work outside of their contract all the time", bahhh....liar liar fants on fire.

3) It's the school's job to offer more. It's your job to teach children....as I understand.

[Voyeur]

I feel the difference is that in other fields or at home, you are not a priosoner.

Here they made you come over under a certain set of rules. Often your severance, pension, airfare are at stake if you don't stay. You can't move around freely due to VISA limits etc...

I think the free market dynamic at home is fine and it makes it cool to ask more from your employees and not pay them more. Very soon, they will quit or move on to another place etc... if you are unreasonable. Or they will work to rule and not be motivated, maybe forcing you to fire them etc... IOW it MAY be bad management or not, depending on the situation. but the marketplace can handle it.

Here, the marlet is inefficient due to the above mentioned factors. Furthermore, there often isn't that reward of promotion you can dangle to justify work above and beyond the call of duty. Many are just here for one year. So to me, it is a whole different dynamic. Employees should plan on having their slaries adequately compensate the work asked for in their contracts and not any extra. Then, if they want more, they should increase the pay *immediately* to cover the extra. You shouldn't plan on people wnt ing to help the company or go the extra-mile. And you shouldn't hate everyone who works to the letter of their contract since the normal incentives to do more are missing.

But again, maybe I am dreaming - not all people are rational. And MAYBE Hogwon owners are even a little less rational than the norm.

[ChuckECheese]

Korean law makers and hagwon owner knew exactly what they were doing when they made E-2 law. They don't want you to have any other options while you're in Korea land. They want you to be held prisoner for just one slave master.

[spliff]

I say go by what is written in the contract, no more, no less. It's not like you're gonna be at the same school forever. Are there roads for REAL advancement? Will you have a nice retirement package when you reach the time to finally stow away your whiteboard markers? The owners are the ones who have to make the sacrifices as it's their investment. You are just a contract teacher. And, like you alluded to..."it's all give and no take". Personally, I wouldn't lift a finger outside my contracted duties unless I was being satisfactorily compensated. Even if they are paying you 2.5 for 120 per month, it's not really a good salary in today's market, IMHO.

[Woland]

[Fresh Prince]

Exactly. When does the taking stop and the giving start?

A friend of mine used to work in a large building which housed several businesses including a hogwan. All of the business hired a janitorial crew to come in and clean, except for the hogwan. At the hogwan, the Korean teachers not only tought long hours, they also performed the janitorial duties.

When the director of the hogwan started to ask the foreign teacher to do more work, the foreign teacher at first agreed because he wanted to make a good impression with the director. It turned out that the director kept asking for more and more and did not pay the foreign teacher any extra. In the end, the foreign teacher did not earn respect from the director despite all his hard work. Instead, the director had no respect for the foreign teacher because he did not stand up for himself. The director knew that the the foreign teacher would not say no, and eventually worked him so hard that he quit early.

My friend eventually decided to say 'no' when asked to do more.

[Voyeur]

I have heard that angle before, that accepting extra work actually lowers their esteem of you and is a test.

Not sure I buy it generally (might be true in some cases like the above example). I just feel the owners expect the extra work and do think more of you for helping out - just that for them reward was never on the table.

[grainger]

[sock]

[dam_on]

sounds like my experience at the YES school...

I say you politely decline any extra work and leave it at that. If they add more take-home-afterhours-during-your-free-time work, then just explain to them when they ask you why you weren't fully prepared (extra classes), why the work was so shoddy (report cards, teacher training) or why you're not being a "team player", that you think that following the contract is in fact a GOOD idea. Also mention that if they would like to re-negotiate the terms of your contract to include more duties and as well as a higher salary, you would surely consider it.

Sounds like the manager is just a smooth talker thinking he can bully you in to doing extra work. We're not Korean...they will learn this one day.

Hope this, in some little way, helps.

[Homer]

[wylies99]