Korean Job Discussion Forums

[TroySantos]

HIYA!

I'm reading threads about how difficult it is to eat veg in Korea. I haven't been out to many restaurants but I do understand that veg isn't a common concept in Korea. I go to a Buddhist temple all the time and though the food at the temple is all vegan, nearly nobody but me who goes there eats veg outside of the food they get at the temple.

I don't eat 100% raw, but predominantly I eat raw vegan. I like it well enough. For anyone finding it difficult to cook, why not just eat an apple?! Or two or three, or more! I know fruit gets expensive, but I have compared the cost of my daily food with the costs of dishes that I see through the windows in restaurants (I don't go in!) and suppose that my monthly food budget is probably comparable to what I'd spend if I were going out all the time.

I've also read somewhere on this forum that rice is expensive. Doubt it's more expensive to eat rice all the time than a comparable amount of fruit, but take a wider perspective. I feel that fruit is far more healthful than rice. Especially white rice, c'mon. And even with brown rice, I understand that the fiber in whole grains is irritating to our intestines.

I don't want to get into a protracted discussion about the health benefits and drawbacks of any specific food, any kind of food, or any kind of diet. But if you're finding veg difficult in Korea, why not try eating a few apples? And now that they're in season, they're probably cheaper than ever. Just today I bought a 15 kilo box for 28,000 won. They'll last five or six days I suppose. Maybe a bit longer. Doesn't just about everyone love fruit? Persimmons are delectable. How about dried persimmons? -- yum yum. Kiwis are great. Strawberries are just coming in season. Tangerines, I live in tangerine country - Jeju. Oranges are coming in too.

I soak non-organic produce in a vinegar solution for 20 minutes then, my understanding is, they're mostly free of agricultural chemicals. Honestly, it's a bit hard to believe, but this is what I've heard from many people. I believe at least some of them know what they're talking about.

Do you know that lots of wild "weeds" here are edible? I have a tiny garden just outside my apartment. It's semi-wild. I planted a few things and there's lots that just comes up on its own. I don't know the names but I do know they're edible. Of course, if you don't know they're edible, ask an older person. They might know. Dandelion is a great vegetable, though it's bitter. Purslane, in spring to fall, will be great. Plantain is still growing wild. Wild mustard is growing in my garden. Of course, the weather is more mild here than most places in Korea so vegetables are still available here whereas they might not be able to grow in the colder places. I don't know and I don't care to go!

Smoothies are great and easy to make. Just put some apples and / or tangerines, and some vegetables together in a blender, and a bit of water if you like, then turn it on. (I advise not mixing sweet fruits like bananas with sour ones like kiwis. Not too easy on most people's digestion.) Tastes great and I believe it's far more healthul than most things that a person is likely to put into their mouths.

Salads are easy to make. Even dressings, just blend a couple of tomatoes and a bit of persimmon vinegar or lemon, and olive oil or sesame oil, and pour. Have a big salad. Just be mindful of the amount of fat that you eat. It's better, I believe, to eat a lot of vegetables than to eat a lot of fat. Even vegetarian fat, like olilve oil or sesame oil.

Nonghyop has a selection of organic vegetables. They also have organic fruits though I don't see them often at the one where I go here on Jeju.

[re:cursive]

All the power to you...Being plain old vegetarian is tough enough in this country (mainly when it comes to social food based events). I can only imagine how much harder it would be restricting your food intake to raw produce.

[merkurix]

OP, how long have you been teaching in Korea?? If you are a raw vegan, have you been able to manage eating well this whole time here? I've had a few vegetarian friends (not vegan) here who couldn't pull it off well because, well everything has meat! They eventually cracked and allowed some fish into their life. While it is relatively simple to find foods that don't have red meat or poultry, it's effin' hard to find foods that are not fish free. Even kimchi uses a bit of anchovy.

[RACETRAITOR]

I don't understand why so many vegetarians and vegans want to come here. There are other countries where you'd be a lot more well off and could safely eat the food without worrying it has bits of fish in it.

[oni]

It's not that bad being vegan here!
There's plenty of veg restaurants in Seoul, vegan bakery ( a franchise of Sticky Fingers in Washington, DC) and vegan ice cream cafes(organic vegan ice cream: Pure Decadence).
I guess you just need to know these things bc they certainly make my diet way better!!
I also mail order from veganessentials from time to time.

See Simple!!!!

The awesome Vegan Voice magazine has an article with a guy who's a raw vegan in the current issue.
www.veganic.net.
This mag is published in Australia and each issue is fantastic and inspiring!

[Hollywoodaction]

I'm not a vegan, but I think I can offer some help. The trick is to order in bulk. Online is the best place to do it. I order 10 kg boxes of organically grown apples for about 30 000 won. At that price, I can eat 2 to 3 apples a day and not break the bank. Nice the time to buy sweet potatoes and carrots, so you could probably get some good deals on them.

Have a Korean friend check Gmarket or auction.co.kr for you (just remember to make it clear to them that you want organically grown fruit and vegetables only).

[TroySantos]

HIYA!

I didn't mention in the original post that I don't eat only raw food. Mostly, maybe 70% or so. I still like to eat various things. And being in a new country there are so many interesting looking foods. And foods that I have come to like. This weekend I am thinking to go to a vegetarian restaurant that I went to once and enjoyed.

Not that anyone cares what I eat. It's just that I myself don't like to mislead.

[blukut]

i never post on this forum, but I was about to go to bed and because I'm not an english but a chef I had to respond to this.
I understand where vegans are coming from, and it's a noble pursuit. Even if a small run off of vegan theory could permeate our notions of good food, sustainable agricultrue and a community based around the one thing we all need -food- could be understood by everybody, it would really change our world thinks about food, nutrition and ultimately starvation. It's not that hard, really.
But as a chef, for vegans I feel for you. And for anyone, including non-vegans, to press our agenda on you, or for vegans to press your agenda on us, is ridiculous. I personally tolerate vegans, but you guys are a pain in the ass. Butter is great. There's nothing wrong with cultivating animal products in a symbiotic relationship. Just because large GMO's and animal factories have made the news doesn't mean that there aren't conscientious producers of animal products that don't violate animal rights or in anyway endager their quality of life.
Vegetarian - great. Korea is probably one of the best places for a vegetarian. Soy based products are abundant and I have yet to encounter a culture that is more into vegetable centered dishes than asians. Furthermore, and I know I'll get flamed for this, but for the vegans, I don't understand the absolute-no-animal product clause. For example, fish sauce - it's made from small fish, no bigger than the tip of your fingernail. It's sustainable agriculture, it involves no other chemical treatment than sun and salt and it provides so much damn flavor. Really, I don't get it.
singed,
a chef

[Rteacher]

What part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" don't don't you get? It clearly means that one should not unnecessarily kill any living being. The size of the living being doesn't matter...

I agree that milk products can be obtained without killing or abusing cows (though that is too rarely the case now.)

People who crave animal blood and flesh should try to kick the habit at least for the sake of saving the environment. Worse comes to worst, you could always join a vegetarian club: http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=76024
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=53723&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[kermo]

I like fresh fruit and raw veg, but I find that when I eat it all day, my stomach doesn't agree. Maybe too acidic?

I can't agree that Korea is the best country in the world for vegetarians. The concept is barely understood here-- believe me. Ham considered is a vegetable, for pete's sake. My vote for Best Vegetarian Country goes to India, though I'd happily eat North African/Middle Eastern vegetarian food for the rest of my life.

[Qinella]

[blukut]

You know, maybe I came across a little harsh in that last post. I don't mean to bash the vegans, although it's easy to do. I just find their position ridiculous.
And to cite the Bible, a text so filled with bloodshed, as a reason not to kill even tiny silverfish made me laugh. First, you've taken one of the ten commandments completely out of context - if you notice the other nine, they're all referring to moral laws that relate to humans, not animals. People on a regular basis don't covet an animal's wife, and if animals are damned to go to hell for stealing one another's food - they're all screwed. Parasitism was a wrong evolutionary choice, let them burn for eternity!
Don't forget all the moving stories involving Jesus feeding the masses with fish, and the sacrifices of lambs and calves when the prodigal son returned or as offerings. If you're going to cite a text, don't choose the Bible. It's just too easy for the rest of us.
For vegans, let's do a quick historical survey. There were no vegan hominids in our 2.5 million year anthropological development. Austrolopithecene did not stand above his prey and wonder if killing this small rat was a morally right or wrong choice. People gladly ate meat. It was an evolutionary must. Animal husbandry was practiced for centuries, and to boot, there isn't one vegan religion, or civizilation in the world today. They all, repeat all have consumed some sort of animal product, be it fish, ghee (clarified butter) or goat cheese or milk.
Humans are quite capable of consuming and digesting meat. In fact, early humans ate meat as a means to prevent salt deficiencies, which can lead to death. If hunters or nomadic tribes couldn't find a stable source of salt, they realized that meat contains salts that they could use to nourish themselves. The Masai tribe contains this today, by drinking animal blood. You see, eating meat is not inherently bad, or immoral. Vegans are against the current practice of how animals are bred and processed.
I am too. Large scale slaughter houses are terrible for a number of reasons, and for anyone concerned about whether their meat gets to roll around in fecal matter and bacteria, they won't support those types of processors. Go local. Find a butcher who supports purveyors that treat their animals correctly. I think it's entirely possible for the meat industry to turn around, produce higher quality products and not treat animals cruelly. Look at the Japanese and wagyu or kobe beef, those cows get beer and daily massages.
And as for eating vegetarian in Korea, I understand, Koreans have lost their way. They lie about what goes in food, etc. I've cooked in some restaurants here and they just don't get it. However, that''s if you're eating out all the time. If you cook at home, you'll notice how ridiculously expensive meat is and how arbitrarily it's priced. It forced me to become vegetarian - and it's actually been ok. The produce here absolutely is a thousand times better than what I get back home. A carrot actually tastes like a carrot instead of an orange wet stick. A potato is loaded with starches and sugars instead of being mildly flour-like. Check out how many varities of tofu there are and what you can do with them. Check out how many types of seaweed they use. The different roots and tubers and their infinite variety of greens. And, sesame seed oil here is graded just like olive oil is graded. The 'extra virgin' variety, while being unbelievably expensive, is so good, so damn rich that you only need a few drops to enhance your food with a smoky, rich umami flavor.
I don't mean to kick around the vegans, but really, it's a choice. Stop going around to restaurants with your non-vegan friends complaining how there's nothing to eat. If you're so aware of the state of the world, you should be aware that most people don't agree with you. Have a good attitude about it instead of being such a martyr. Most people enjoy eating meat and shouldn't be criticized for it. It's not a habit, like smoking or picking at your nails - it's an animal characteristic called eating. Take a stand against cruel processing methods, not the product.
And as for eating raw fruits and vegetables all the time, your stomach disagrees with you because you're consuming nearly all fiber. The celluar structure of fruits and vegetables (most of the hard ones that is) is made of tough, fiborous strands. Plus, you're depriving yourself of protein and salts. Man, who thinks of these types of things? We're humans, not nut and berry foraging rodents. Eat responsibly, but eat like a human.

[Rteacher]

Not killing other living beings unnecessarily is a universal moral principle. Every species is food for another, and each animal species has its own natural quota of what it can normally eat. Many species are vegetarian, many are carnivorous, etc.

Physiologically, humans match up more closely with the naturally vegetarian animals, I personally am lacto-vegetarian for spiritual reasons (bhakti yoga...) but as you've noted there are various reasons to be vegetarian, including concern for the environment. Here's a short excerpt from Higher Taste relating to health concerns:

Today, with increasing evidence of diet's critical effect on good health and longevity, more and more people are investigating this question: Is the human body better suited to a vegetarian diet or one that includes meat?

In the search for answers, two areas should be considered - the anatomical structure of the human body, and the physical effects of meat consumption.

Since eating begins with the hands and mouth, what can the anatomy of these bodily parts tell us? Human teeth, like those of the herbivorous creatures, are designed for grinding and chewing vegetable matter. Humans lack the sharp front teeth for tearing flesh that are characteristic of carnivores. Meat-eating animals generally swallow their food without chewing it and therefore do not require molars or a jaw capable of moving sideways. Also, the human hand, with no sharp claws and with its opposable thumb, is better suited to harvesting fruits and vegetables than to killing prey.

PHYSIOLOGICAL COMPARISONS

MEAT-EATER - HERBIVORE - MAN

Has claws No claws No claws

No skin pores, perspires through tongue
Perspires through skin pores
Perspires through skin pores

Sharp front teeth for tearing, no flat molar teeth for grinding
No sharp front teeth has flat rear molars
No sharp front teeth has flat rear molars

Intestinal tract 3 times body length so rapidly decaying meat can pass out quickly
Intestinal tract 10-12 times body length
Intestinal tract 12 times body length

Strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
Stomach acid 20 times less strong than meat-eaters
Stomach acid 20 times less strong than meat-eaters
http://www.webcom.com/~ara/col/books/VEG/ht/chapone.html

(I have 5 copies of the small Higher Taste cook book that I'll give out to the first five people that ask for them at this Sunday's veggie club lunch meeting at Anyong...)

[blukut]

I figured the physiological difference point would be raised. It's tiring and irrelevant, but you brought it up. One thing to consider before I get into it - do you believe in evolution, or are you a creationist? I only ask because if you believe in evolution, it makes sense for carnivores to develop in a particular way, herbivores in another and finally, omnivores, such as us, to be able to consume both meat and vegetables.
1. We don't have claws. But we do have hands that are equally suitable to use a hoe, shovel and harvest food. To say that our development of opposable thumb as an argument for harvesting rather than hunting is about the most absurd things I have yet to come across. The opposable thumb allows us to write, handle tools, masturbate - how is that among all the expanded uses of the thumb, the author decided that it most strongly points to reason that we are better suited to harvesting rather than writing or building? Absolutely absurd.
2. Teeth structure - we do have sharp teeth as well flat molars for mastication. The front incisors are visibly narrow and edged, much like a knife (gasp). And for those of us with canines, those pointy teeth on the corners of our gums, well, they do seem well designed to tear at meat, don't they.
3. The ratio of stomach acid is again, not indicative of a particular diet. A carnivore must have stronger acids because its primary diet is meat. A human stomach can digest a range of foods and therefore doesn't need the potency of a lion's ph balance. We digest dairy products, fiberous foods, and meat.
4. The length of the intestinal tract - the length of our lower g.i. corresponds to efficiency, not diet. The increased length allows tissue more time to absorb nutrients. Simply because food passes more quickly is not indicative of what we should eat - remember Olean? It doesn't get processed at all, but it's an ideal fat because it can't be absorbed into our system. Get it?
5. And what does perrpiring through our tongue or pores have anything to do with diet? Because we our anatomy doesn't resemble a carnivore's doesn't mean we're ill suited to eating meat. A watermelon and a cloud are both 98% water, but they sure look different. Does this mean that they're not both made of water? We don't look like a typical carnivore, but does that we mean we can't eat meat?
6. A final question - how is it that spears, hunting tools were typically the first developments hominids made? Why didn't we evolve eating nuts and berries?
Really, the physiology argument holds no water, especially the opposable thumbs theory - that's ridiculous. It's going to come down to personal preference, religious prescriptions or availability of food. All of which are interesting to talk about. But not the uses of our hand based on design.

[Sod_em_and_begorrah]

I never eat raw vegetarians. I always cook them first.