Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Double07]

Hi

Just had a chat with YBM head office this morning and discussed some positions that I might apply for and was wondering if anyone had any info on the schools in particular, or indeed the areas in general.

Seokchon ECC - in Southern Seoul
Jungye ECC - in north eastern Seoul

Did mention one in Busan but its got Saturday shifts every week and I really don't think I would be able to handle that.

Both are company owned and not franchised schools. Any comments would be welcomed, good or bad.

Thanks

[Captain Courageous]

From what I can gather (and I'm in negotiations for a contract right now with them), people who have taught for YBM ECC don't have terribly many complaints, and those who haven't but have only seen contracts by them think they are substandard. I haven't worked for them (and have not, in fact, worked in Korea), but this is what I've culled from the many posts about them.

The workload is excessive (unless you can talk them down), and the pay, especially for that workload, should be higher. I have an MA and college lecture experience, and for 110 actual hours (read: not class hours of 40-50 minutes, but 6600 minutes total), they offered only 2.0 million won. So unless you can haggle effectively with them on the terms of the contract, it IS substandard. On the flipside of that, they will always pay on time and won't give you the kind of garbage franchises or independent hagwons give. They will, as far as I have read, honor the contract effectively and you'll rarely if ever get shafted, so long as you're not working for a franchise.

Also, don't let them charge the housing deposit. It's illegal, as is making you come to Korea prior to your E-2 starting date and giving you orientation for $30/day. Don't be paid less than your daily salary, and don't start prior to your E-2 visa starting date.

Hope that helps.

[Binch Lover]

I worked at Junggye ECC for a year in 2005 and it was pretty good for a first job. Initially I had to work a terrible split shift but I complained and threatened to leave so for the last 9 months I had a sweet block shift (ie MWF 1-6, TTh 11.30-1 2-6).
As other posters have mentioned the pay isn't the best but you the hours weren't very long and there's very little prep to be done. You will get paid on time too with no worries.
The school was losing money when I was there and they brought in an evil witch as a manager to try and change things. She introduced things like cameras in the classrooms and so on and created a real bad atmosphere especially with the korean teachers (cos the school was trying to lower their salary). It was a really fun place to work initially, but the feeling wasn't great by the time I left.
You won't get any hassles there as long as you do a decent job, unlike some of the clowns that were my co-teachers! On a side note, all the guys who couldn't do their job properly were Americans. Now I know some great Yanks, but a couple of the guys I worked with were so stupid I couldn't get my head around it.

[Homer]

My first job here was at an ECC...it was a decent first gig and they respected all the clauses in the contract. No pay hassles, no problems with accomodations.

The hours were heavy and the pay a tad lower than at other places but for a first job that is compensated for by the fact that you will be paid on time (overtime included) and will get whats in the contract. The curriculum is also ok, easy to follow and fairly well structured (it has its problems of course!).

However, stay away from franchise ECC schools (run independantly of YBM) as there the conditions vary greatly.

[wisernow]

I will summerize what many other posts about YBM company owned schools have mentioned.

1. Always get everything in the contract as it is Korea's Largest, Biggest Gorilla in the ESL industry. They have operations in every facet of the education market. I been to their head office once and its sevearal large YBM only buildings that they own.

2. YBM is a system, kind of like McDonalds, same quality where ever you go and they can train any motivated person to teach ESL including me as I had worked for them my first two years. Now with my years of experience I can teach all levels and know how to handle various age groups etc. Now I make a lot of money because of my ability to teach using a system that I learned and refined.

3. YBM's company own schools can also vary from really good to just average or even a little bit below average depending on the superviser or manager, location, schedule etc just like any other large chain school.
But even their just avergae school can be better than the average ESL school in Korea because they are reliable and you will not be shafted on the 11th month of your contract. I have never heard of any teacher working for YBM's company owned schools getting fired unjustly right before their contract ended. Also, YBM's company owned schools don't disappear or change ownership so you can use them to get referrences as I still do to get more lucative positions that require a more experience and skilled teacher

4. As for the salary vs work it again depends on the locatioin and month or how busy the school is. My ECC school had me usually teach about 5 to 7 classes per day M,W,F but on Tues,Thurs I usually only had about 2 or 4 classes. My school had ended its Saturday program as demand had waned so I never had to teach on Saturdays although there were 2 to 3 events schedule on Saturdays per year that I had to attend. I know that in many of the months I worked I did not go over my base hours which used to be just 90hrs then 95hrs as the contract changed my 2nd year. I see that their new contract pays more than before but has more hours now. If your school cannot give you the full load you still get paid your full salary as I had. YBM is also more structured then the average ESL school in Korea some of you may like it and some of you may prefer more freedom to do your own thing in the classroom as you see fit.

I will stress to all newbie or even teachers who are in a bad situation to consider working for YBM ECC as getting paid on time is one condition you should not take for granted in Korea. When you finish your contract getting all the benefits is also Very Very important because I know so many teachers who either got only some or most of the things in the contract but not all the benefits of finishing the contract. The stress of not getting what you earned will last forever as it is just like being robbed.

If you are wondering why not just get the great job by skipping YBM or other well run ESL schools as YBM is not the only well run ESL hakwon then you can try and hope that you don't get fired or quit over the stress of trying to teach beyond your teaching ability. If you think you can handle teaching Koreans right off the boat then hats off to you & best of luck

Unless you have actually taught in Korea or Asia and used a good curriculum you will not be able to teach at a good "private & rich" public school as these schools will give you hardly any training or support or even the most basic of curriculum. Even univesity jobs or good adult teaching position will be a challenge for teachers not used to teaching in Korea and with Korean students young or old as it really does take experience to teach them effectively. Koreans are picky and finicky why do you think Wal-Mart and Carrefour the world's no.1 and no.2 retailers just left the Korean market as they could not solve the Korean riddle.

[Mr. BlackCat]

Oh, ECC.... There's definitely some good and some bad things.

I recently finished up a year at one in Seoul. While I was there attendance shot up and we were all getting more work and classes. Unlike the other posters here I was beyond 95 hours/month easily, more like 115 (actual hours, not classes). So about 8-9 40 mins classes a day or more. It was exhausting, but the OT was alright. But when I first got there I had a weird schedule. Like 1 class, break, another class, break, one more, break, etc. I'd be there all day with 6 classes.

I'm just telling you this to show how varied the schedules can be. There were teachers that came in 5 hours later than me and we would leave at the same time. But we all got that same pay. And those breaks I had weren't really breaks. There's always something to proof read, or a table to move, or a kid to interview. And ECC will NEVER guarantee you a schedule.

I was asked for and was told that I wouldn't have kindy. That dream was shattered my first day there when I was told my class list. I asked that the situation be rectified, and was told to give it a month or so. 5 months later, with no changes, I was given more kindy. In retorspect, I grew to enjoy it and it gave me all sorts of new skills. Blessing in disguise? That's so very easy to say now that its over.

One more negative thing: I was told that there would be two or three Saturday events that I would need to attend throughout the year. I blew through those in my first two months. There was always something for us to do on the weekends. Wether it be actual attendance somewhere or work dumped on us last minute that needed our immediate attention. And every month you have to do reports on each student. Most of us had 100+. All in all, there was an average of 12-16 hours of extra work each month outside teaching and related duties (marking, prep, etc.) for us. That's 3-4 hours each week. Yeah, we said no a couple of times, but if you want to maintain a good raport...

Alright, now to the positives. Like everyone else said, get paid on time no housing issues and all that kind of stuff. There's a relocation bonus when you first arrive and an attendance bonus when you leave. I didn't really mind the housing deposit (200,000/mo for first 3) because you get it back at the end, and its a nice boost. Its only illegal if you are forced to accept it. You'll get it back, its ECC afterall.

Our supervisor and other personnel did everything for us. Every little problem was taken care of usually without foreigner worry. We all had to go down to immi to verify our Docs and they came with us and we used a bus from the school. My new school does next to nothing outside work, so I appreciate how easy it was last year.

Its not too hard, especially once you get used to it. It can also get boring, but depending on each class you can have lots of fun with the kids.

There were many outings like dinners and movies. Although I didn't appreciate being forced into indirect weekend work, we usually got a meal out of it, and a good one!

As a newbie, I chose ECC because of the security. If you think you're in a position to take a chance there are better paying jobs out there. If I had to claculate it, I would say the money wasn't worth the work I did last year. By far. We calculated one day and per class we weren't doing too well, and that's not counting all the other stuff.

At least ECC let me hone my skills more. It also taught me to demand things be included in my contract and how to deal with technicalities. I'm totally willing to go above and beyond, but I felt that I was asked to do way more than was fair given the pay. Maybe that was just my particular school. Maybe it was my friendships with everyone that stopped me from being more assertive. Happens all over the place.

I must add that I met some of the greatest people I've ever encountered during my time there (both foreign and Korean). Obviously that's not a guarentee you'll have the same thing. I just wanted to say I had lots of fun.

Anyway, good luck. Seoul is fun.

[Double07]

Thanks for all the replies, really helps to have honest answers when making such a big decision!

[Karley]

Has anyone heard anything about any of the ECC schools in Busan?