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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: My Problem with the Iraqi war |
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To me, the Iraqi people as a whole seem like a bunch of knuckle-scraping, backward dirt-eaters.
In fact, that's how I would describe the entire Middle East--excluding Israel.
Are these morons really worth a single drop of American blood?
I'm starting to think not.
Get out.
Let the Saudis and Jordanians come in to defend the Suni.
The Iranians can defend the Shiite.
If Iran wants to go nuke, let Israel take care of the problem. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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I hate how everyone's leveling the blame at the Iraqi people right now, as if they don't want freedom and democracy enough or aren't trying hard enough. They didn't ask to be invaded. If the US is disappointed they liberated a nation of people not worthy enough, well, that's egg on the US' face, not Iraq's.
I have a lot of friends in the American military, but I think they're morally obligated to fix every problem in the country because of the situation they've put themselves in. I say keep the troops in Iraq; don't let the US get away with an illegal invasion and pull out without paying the price. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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race of traitors wrote:
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| ...but I think they're morally obligated to fix every problem in the country because of the situation they've put themselves in. I say keep the troops in Iraq; don't let the US get away with an illegal invasion and pull out without paying the price. |
Supposition #1: The current problems leading to the civil war are the direct and sole result of American intervention
Supposition #2: American forces must be punished for their transgressions regardless of whether they intended ill will toward the Iraqi people.
Way to go, guy, with allies like you who needs enemies? |
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Drunken Monkey
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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My only complaint is that nobody asked me for my ideas.
Put me in charge and it would already be over 
I also have a superb plan on how we can take over France if your interested?  |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Supposition #1: The current problems leading to the civil war are the direct and sole result of American intervention
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The US is responsible for turning the country to anarchy, which opened the floodgates for all these problems. There wasn't civil war under Saddam Hussein for sure.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Supposition #2: American forces must be punished for their transgressions regardless of whether they intended ill will toward the Iraqi people.
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I'd much rather see the leaders punished, but that's not going to happen. I just don't want to see the Iraqis punished.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Way to go, guy, with allies like you who needs enemies? |
Actually, in this war my country is definitely not an ally. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: re: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Supposition #1: The current problems leading to the civil war are the direct and sole result of American intervention
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The US is responsible for turning the country to anarchy, which opened the floodgates for all these problems. There wasn't civil war under Saddam Hussein for sure.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Supposition #2: American forces must be punished for their transgressions regardless of whether they intended ill will toward the Iraqi people.
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I'd much rather see the leaders punished, but that's not going to happen. I just don't want to see the Iraqis punished.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Way to go, guy, with allies like you who needs enemies? |
Actually, in this war my country is definitely not an ally. |
Amen, Amen, and Amen.
Peace |
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thebomb
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I also have a superb plan on how we can take over France if your interested? |
Why would you want to take over France? It's full of the French  |
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Drunken Monkey
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Why would you want to take over France? It's full of the French |
Not when im finished!! |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
race of traitors wrote:
[snip]
Way to go, guy, with allies like you who needs enemies? |
Way to put to rest the idea that you're some boorish right-winged ideologue, Steve-o. 
Last edited by twg on Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| As to France, it's already in progress, just not by the Americans. Although they will probably end up wishing it had been. |
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Drunken Monkey
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Caniff, is your comment a subtle one about the amount of immigrants?
I dont think its just France with this problem. |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Supposition #1: The current problems leading to the civil war are the direct and sole result of American intervention |
For what it�s worth:
1. The U.S., after being kicked out of Iran, aided and supported Saddam�s rise to power-they wanted leverage in the region.
2. The U.S. (and France) aided Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war�even after Iraq used chemical weapons.
3. The U.S. encouraged Kuwait to sell off their oil and force the price of oil down at the end of the Iraq-Iran war; but assured Kuwait they would defend Kuwait should Iraq take exception.
4. U.S. Ambassador Glassby assured Saddam that the U.S. had no position regarding any border dispute Iraq had with Kuwait 2 days before Iraq invaded Kuwait.
5. At the end of the first Gulf War President Bush Snr. encouraged an uprising within Iraq and alluded to U.S. support should such an uprising take place.
6. After 9-11 the U.S. stated unequivocally that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction; and that there was a close link between El Qaeda and Saddam. Neither were true.
7. After the invasion of Iraq, the Bathist police force was disbanded by U.S. forces leaving no civilian police force and creating a power vacuum.
8. The U.S. failed miserably in planning for peace after the war, and continues to fail.
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| Supposition #2: American forces must be punished for their transgressions regardless of whether they intended ill will toward the Iraqi people. |
Hmm, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. When you are the world�s greatest military power, good intentions are not enough. With all that money and power you�d think there would be a little more time spent on analysis. When you fail on that level you should be punished.
I support the U.S in the invasion of Afghanistan. The whole world did (mostly). The U.S. neo-cons have squandered that good will and are now inflaming the whole Middle East.
Hell, weren�t there enough problems in the Middle East without George W�s bravado? |
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NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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People talk about civil war like it is a bad thing. America had a civil war and they got through it and became the world's lone superpower. One of the problems with Iraq seems to be the idea that it is a single nation and a single country. It seems to be two nations being forced to be one country. Maybe splitting the country along religous lines would be a good thing.
I do agree that the US has a responsibility to stay there until either they are asked to leav by a stable government or they fully train and equip security forces. Then they should leave because after that they will be fighting American trained and equiped security forces. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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(Answering DM) Yes. And that's clearly true. However. it's the lack of assimilation that is the problem more than just immigration alone.
But that's for one of the many other threads on that subject. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Old fat expat wrote: |
For what it�s worth:
1. The U.S., after being kicked out of Iran, aided and supported Saddam�s rise to power-they wanted leverage in the region.
2. The U.S. (and France) aided Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war�even after Iraq used chemical weapons.
3. The U.S. encouraged Kuwait to sell off their oil and force the price of oil down at the end of the Iraq-Iran war; but assured Kuwait they would defend Kuwait should Iraq take exception.
4. U.S. Ambassador Glassby assured Saddam that the U.S. had no position regarding any border dispute Iraq had with Kuwait 2 days before Iraq invaded Kuwait.
5. At the end of the first Gulf War President Bush Snr. encouraged an uprising within Iraq and alluded to U.S. support should such an uprising take place.
6. After 9-11 the U.S. stated unequivocally that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction; and that there was a close link between El Qaeda and Saddam. Neither were true.
7. After the invasion of Iraq, the Bathist police force was disbanded by U.S. forces leaving no civilian police force and creating a power vacuum.
8. The U.S. failed miserably in planning for peace after the war, and continues to fail.
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To politely disagree, I think only 6-8 are worth doing anything about because the others are too far in the past. There have been problems with Iraq dating back to 1918 and further back to when the Mongols sacked Bahdad and destroyed the agricultural infrastructure. At the moment it's enough to point our finger at the US for problems started after the second invasion.
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| Quote: |
| Supposition #2: American forces must be punished for their transgressions regardless of whether they intended ill will toward the Iraqi people. |
Hmm, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. When you are the world�s greatest military power, good intentions are not enough. With all that money and power you�d think there would be a little more time spent on analysis. When you fail on that level you should be punished.
I support the U.S in the invasion of Afghanistan. The whole world did (mostly). The U.S. neo-cons have squandered that good will and are now inflaming the whole Middle East.
Hell, weren�t there enough problems in the Middle East without George W�s bravado? |
I strongly disagree with this part. I don't think the US had good intentions in invading Iraq ever. Afghanistan was different. That one had UN support. They were clearly involved in 9/11 and supporting terrorists. |
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