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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: Trotskyites defend the US |
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A propos of nothing in particular, except that the issues dealt with are still argued here on a daily basis, I thought I would post this trotskyite anti-anti-American rant. It was written shortly after 9-11, as shown by the overestimation of casualties.
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the reprehensible response of certain petty bourgeois opinion makers to the event underscores the gulf that divides socialist opposition to imperialism from vulgar anti-Americanism.
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To present �the US� as some predatory imperialist monolith, as Raven and others do, can only confuse and disorient. It not only serves as a barrier to genuine internationalism, it overlooks the contradictory character of American history and society. What does it mean to �dislike the US�? What sort of social element speaks like this? The United States is a complex entity, with a complex history, elements of which are distinctly ignoble, elements of which are deeply noble. The US has passed through two revolutions�the American Revolution and the Civil War�the mass battles of the Depression and the struggle for Civil Rights. The contradiction between the democratic ideals and revolutionary principles on which the nation was founded and its social and political realities has always been the starting point of the struggle for socialism in the United States.
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http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/sep2001/rads-s22.shtml |
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soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Their critique of 9/11 may contain errors both factually and ideologically - but I don't question the sincerity or conviction of those who hold to that view in the face of a capitalist onslaught of right-wing hysteria.
As a perspective, Trotskyism is most known for its rabidly anti-Moscow line - which rarely manifests itself outside of their own small propaganda sects.
It is a niche perspective - but one that remains more valid than say, accepting the conservative agenda of (say) TIME magazine as the truth. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Empire
This is a complex book that breaks away from traditional Marxism and hailed the age of globalization (before it was called that) as a new opportunity.
You'll find the traditional condemnations of colonialism wrapped up in Hegelian terms alongside frets that there is a pervasive new racism in 'culturalism.' But Hardt and Negri take up the idea from Polybius and Machiavelli about the threefold distinction in political power; monarchic (or tyrannical), aristocratic (or plutarchic), democratic (or anarchic), and they apply it to the modern world as a whole.
I really like the book not because I necessarily agree with it but because it enthusiastically identifies some of the wonders of the modern age. These include the internet as the ideal of post-modernism realized, global immigration and migration as a source of new possibilites, and new jobs in ideas and information as opposed to simply manufacture and tradtional labor a kind of liberation in itself. It is a must-read for anyone who would describe themselves as an 'evolutionary Marxist.' |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Kuros:
Yeah, I've heard interesting things about that book. One question though...
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| You'll find the traditional condemnations of colonialism wrapped up in Hegelian terms alongside frets that there is a pervasive new racism in 'culturalism.' |
What exactly do Hardt and Negri mean by "culturalism"? |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| soviet_man wrote: |
Their critique of 9/11 may contain errors both factually and ideologically - but I don't question the sincerity or conviction of those who hold to that view in the face of a capitalist onslaught of right-wing hysteria.
As a perspective, Trotskyism is most known for its rabidly anti-Moscow line - which rarely manifests itself outside of their own small propaganda sects.
It is a niche perspective - but one that remains more valid than say, accepting the conservative agenda of (say) TIME magazine as the truth. |
Or you Stalinists are merely jealous that it is the largest leftie tendency going in the west. |
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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| lol |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| There can be no positive "evolution" of Communist/socialist theory unless there is acknowledgment that God is the real owner of all natural resources and that He has created different classes of people (according to their nature and quality of work) to work cooperatively, functioning as parts of the same organic social body... |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Kuros:
Yeah, I've heard interesting things about that book. One question though...
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| You'll find the traditional condemnations of colonialism wrapped up in Hegelian terms alongside frets that there is a pervasive new racism in 'culturalism.' |
What exactly do Hardt and Negri mean by "culturalism"? |
Sorry, it has been awhile since I read the book, and I'm not confident they used the term themselves. I called it 'culturalism' because they claim nobody would dare to be racist anymore, but that they would instead claim one culture is superior to another. I cannot remember if they called it 'the new racism' or just 'culturalism' or both. An example of a 'culturalist' sentence might be:
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| Koreans eat with metal chopsticks, so they are better co-ordinated and better able to use metal implements in genetic studies. |
Or:
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| We have lots of races and a mixture of many different people in America, and this gives us a diversity that makes us superior to homogenous societies like Korea. |
I honestly raced through that chapter to get to the other ones. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:20 am Post subject: |
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I called it 'culturalism' because they claim nobody would dare to be racist anymore, but that they would instead claim one culture is superior to another. I cannot remember if they called it 'the new racism' or just 'culturalism' or both. An example of a 'culturalist' sentence might be:
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Koreans eat with metal chopsticks, so they are better co-ordinated and better able to use metal implements in genetic studies.
Or:
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We have lots of races and a mixture of many different people in America, and this gives us a diversity that makes us superior to homogenous societies like Korea.
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Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I recall examples of what might be termed "culturalism" in the aftermath of 9-11. Stuff along the lines of "the city is our greatest achievement, and attracts the venomous hostility of all those who hate freedom blah blah blah."
That said, I do think it's possible to make informed judgements about the pros and cons of various cultures, without being the moral equivalent of a racist. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| soviet_man wrote: |
Their critique of 9/11 may contain errors both factually and ideologically - but I don't question the sincerity or conviction of those who hold to that view in the face of a capitalist onslaught of right-wing hysteria.
As a perspective, Trotskyism is most known for its rabidly anti-Moscow line - which rarely manifests itself outside of their own small propaganda sects.
It is a niche perspective - but one that remains more valid than say, accepting the conservative agenda of (say) TIME magazine as the truth. |
Or you Stalinists are merely jealous that it is the largest leftie tendency going in the west. |
Unencumbered, as it is, by the burden of having to defend with consistency the self-serving policies of a foreign government. |
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