Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jlb]

My Toshiba laptop just died. Windows won't even start up and it makes a horrible, grinding kind of noise. Bad news. Anyway, any recommendations for somewhere to take it to get fixed? I'm in Cheonan so preferably there but I'm willing to make the trek to Seoul as well.

Thanks!

[mindmetoo]

[jlb]

I will try to CD thing when I get home tonight and report back. What is worse: the motherboard crashing or the hard-drive? If one of them has crashed, would it just be worth it to get a new computer...it's 2.5 years old anyway.

I got to the screen with the windows logo on a black background with the time bar in the background. Then it goes to the blue screen and says the error message. I tried safe booting but with no success.

[J.B. Clamence]

[Gatsby]

Buying a new laptop right now is a singularly bad idea. You are at the very beginning of a new Windows OS cycle, and Microsoft always designs these operating systems anticipating advances in hardward speed, etc., which finally catches up about the time they are ready to introduce their next OS.

See the other post:

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=79254

Plus, it usually takes a while for Microsoft to work the bugs out of an OS based on new code, which Vista is.

On top of that, laptops have not increased in speed substantially in the last five years. I have a 1,500 mhz Toshiba laptop I bought in 2002, and I see they are still selling laptops in this speed range. Why? Faster CPUs run hotter and use more battery juice.

At any rate, you have gotten some good advice from the other posters.

Do a little research; you don't want to reload the OS if you don't have to. In the old days, you could restart a balky computer with a floppy disk. Now I believe you can set up a flash drive to do this, if you do it before your computer fails.

My Toshiba still works fine after five years. However, I have replaced the original harddrive with a bigger one at a cost of less than $100. I put it in myself. I also have completely reformated the harddrive and reinstalled Windows XP, usually about once a year or so. And I put the old harddrive in a little case and use it as an external drive.

I use anti virus software, but there's nothing like a fresh install on a clean harddrive. It's not hard; you just have to back up your data. And replacing a harddrive about every three years is a good idea to prevent loss of data from failure.

My guess is that something screwed up your registry, which is what the OS uses when loading the software; this could cause your computer to hang. Did you recently install or install software? It's generally a good idea not to load more than one program at a time without rebooting to prevent problems in the registry if something goes wrong.

The main difficulty with replacing the harddrive was opening the case. You may be able to find instructions on the web. If you do it yourself, take photos while you open it to help you get the parts back in afterward.

BTW, there are two moving parts on a laptop: the harddrive and the fan. The fan sometimes makes grinding noises, I guess from dust. It needs to be cleaned periodically. If your computer overheats, it is possible a sensor might shut it down. It is also conceivable that the heat could damage the CPU. However, replacing an old CPU is not all that expensive either; you may be able to put in a faster one.

Another option is to just put in a fresh harddrive, and then hook up the old drive externally to try to recover your data.

Unless their reputation has changed, Toshiba makes very reliable laptops. Good luck.

[jlb]

I'm thinking about taking it to Yongsan to the Toshiba repair place listed on Toshiba's website and seeing what the estimate is. If it's reasonable, I'll probably fix it. If not, I was thinking about buying a Mac anyway, so maybe this is the time.

I had some stuff backed up but not everything(mostly music stuff)...is there hope for me or is all lost?

[Rteacher]

I don't have much technical knowledge at all about computers, but I also have a Toshiba laptop (Satellite A45) that I bought about two-and-a-half years ago, and several months ago it started making strange grinding and popping noises and crashing more often than a blindfolded drunk in a NASCAR race.

I called their "Global Support Centre" (949) 859-4273 (from outside the U.S.) and, from my sketchy description, the tech guy suspected that there might be a hardware problem, but advised me (if I recall correctly) to try erasing the hard drive first with the recovery disk...

Anyway, that's what I did, and it worked like new again for awhile (although a couple days ago the hinges just rotted off and my LCD screen now sports a vertical line down the center I've been told by a tech guy that my screen is on the way out and tha t
more lines are likely to appear...

I'm gonna try to hold out on buying a new laptop till I visit the U.S. again this summer....

[jlb]

Erasing the hard-drive? I would lose all my stuff though, right?

But...if it meant not having to take it in to get repaired...

If only I was a computer genius!

[mindmetoo]

Your motherboard going bad is worse, from one point of view. A new motherboard can run you like $500-$600. If your laptop is old, it might not be worth it. Of course a crashed HD is easy and cheap to replace but the data loss can be immense. In future, get a backup HD and a case that you can plug in via USB. You can use the backup HD to backup your files.

[jlb]

The irony is that I was just going to head to Yongsan on the holiday this Thursday and probably buy an Ipod type item to back up all my files! Curse the bad timing

[Demophobe]

[Gatsby]

You seem a little confused. Perhaps it would help if I spelled out the basics more clearly.

With my Toshiba laptop the Windows operating system comes on a set of three CDs, plus there is supplementary software, Microsoft Works, on additional CDs.

When you put in the first disk for the Toshiba Windows it will ask permission to reformat your harddrive. This will delete all existing files. As far as I can tell, there is no option for repairing the Windows installation without doing this.

After the harddrive is formatted, it will begin installing Windows. It won't even ask for the serial number, I think, since it only installs on that model laptop. All you have to do is switch the CDs as directed. There may be some rebooting at certain points.

When it is through, you can use your computer, sort of. First of all, there is essentially no software on it. So you can add the Works programs, if you use them. You can also add your other programs.

However, you have two big problems: You need to install antivirus and antispyware software before you go on the web. And you need to get a ton of updates from Microsoft from the web. These will include Internet Explorer. (If you haven't tried it, try Opera 9 - it is vastly superior.)

You also need to get the Windows settings back to what you like.

On the other hand, don't sweat it too much early on. If your computer gets screwed up from one thing or another, just reload Windows again. It's good practice.

One of the big things you lose when reloading Windows is the settings and passwords. I think there is a way to create a file to save your settings for a new install. Also, you lose your data files. You know, you can backup files to your email address, though it is easier if you compress them into a few zip files first.

One thing that annoyed me about the Toshiba Windows install disks is that they don't let you partition your harddrive after formatting. The old Windows on my desktop let me do this. This lets you divide your harddive into a C drive, E drive, F drive, etc., as much as you want. The good part about doing this is you can keep Windows in the C drive, other programs in the E drive (D is your CD/DVD drive), data in the F drive. You can even create a separate drive for the Internet browser cache.

These partitions keep your harddrive from fragmenting too much. All you need to defragment is the C drive, and this makes it quicker.

You can get Norton PartitionMagic to partition your drives, and even resize them afterwards.

Which reminds me -- I remember reading about a computer journalist who griped that her harddrives seemed to burn out pretty quickly. I suspect she bought into the hype, and used the automatic convenience settings. You know if you go with the default Microsoft settings, it will have your computer churning data on your harddrive when it is idle a lot of the time. It will be automatically defragmenting much of the time, which is totally unnecessary. And it will be "indexing" all sorts of data so that you can search for it quickly, supposedly. If you see the light for the harddrive flashing when you are not doing anything, this is a sign either of spyware or of Microsoft gone beserk. I turn off that stuff. Stopping the autodefragmenter is relatively easy. Microsoft makes it trickier to turn off the indexing. I forget exactly how I did it. Use Help, search for Indexing Service.

You could also have your virus software set to automatically scan your entire computer on a schedule, which will wear out your harddrive. And then there is the antispyware; if you use the default, it might try reading virtually every file on your computer. I just have it set to read the registry and internet browser caches, I think.

Another issue that can overtax your harddrive is not having enough RAM memory. When this happens, the computer creates virtual RAM memory on your harddrive. It is then shuffling data back and forth between the harddrive and the RAM, slowing down your computer and causing the harddrive LED to flicker a lot.

And then there are all the bells and whistles effects with Windows, liking the fades and shadows on the display icons and fonts. That adds to the demand on RAM.

When you first re-install your operating system, or when you first buy your computer, is a good time to experiment with changing these settings. If you get it wrong, just reinstall. In fact, if you buy a new computer, it doesn't hurt to tinker with all the settings until you get to know them and then reinstall and reset, so that you can be more confident you know what you are doing and have set it right.

Oh, and you probably want to uninstall the garbageware programs that are preinstalled that you won't ever use, such as the AOL, etc. Also delete the icons and go in and delete the program folders after you uninstall the programs themselves.

At some point after all this, after doing all the updates and installing your software, you will probably want to defrag the harddrive. Defragging can reduce wear on your harddive in daily use -- but defragging every week or month just adds to wear.

All this might sound complicated, and it is, sort of. The basic install is super easy. Getting the settings right is the tricky part. But with practice it's not so hard.

Ps: A little known fact is that if you have Microsoft Word or Office, you need to get the updates from a separate web page from the Windows updates, and you need your Office install CDs handy.

HOWEVER, if you know what you are doing, keep Windows up to date, your virus software up to date, and do spyware scans (I use LavaSoft AdAware SE personal), chances are good you will NEVER have a serious problem with your computer system.

I have heard Mac users rant about how they had to throw out their Windows computers cause they were so corrupted. It's never happened to me. But I have been forced to use Macs at work at two jobs, and seen them crash several times a day. At my last job they got the newest OS, plus new software, and it was crashing so often they had to rip out one of the new Mac programs. Simply downloading some ASCII text files from AP often caused my computer to crash. (My Windows laptop does not crash.) I was initially told by the Mac boss that it must be my fault -- Macs don't crash.

And then there was the editor at an earlier paper who would chortle on the phone long distance any time he found out he was talking with another Mac user about the time a Navy ship's computer system crashed because it was using Windows. Meanwhile, he was cursing about his lost work and rebooting his Mac computer several times a day. The reason for the crashes, from what I could tell, was faulty memory management of large data files such as photos, despite Apple's claims of superiority.

Macs are way overhyped by people who seem to think PCs still use DOS. And if you think it will be easier to learn how to use a Mac, forget it. The early Macs were intuitive, and you didn't need a manual. The new Macs are about as intuitive as a Masonic secret decoder ring.

[jlb]

Thanks for all your help...but in a weird twist of fate, I thought I'd give it a go at re-installing windows and the computer started up just like normal. I feel quite confused and can't quite believe it. Maybe it just wanted the weekend off?

I'm wondering if there's still serious issues though that I should get checked out...the grinding sound was horrible.

I have learned my lesson for sure...off to the store tomorrow to buy something to back up my pics and music!

[Wangja]

I'll give you 25,000 KRW.

[Gatsby]

There are only two moving parts in a laptop: the harddrive and the fan.

There are two basic potential problems on a fan, I would assume: Getting clogged with dust and the bearing going out. Is the screen under the fan dusty? If so, the fan will work overtime because it runs on a temperature sensor. I prop up the back bottom of my laptop a bit to give it better circulation.

At any rate, sometimes my fan makes a racket on startup. And sometimes it doesn't. Don't know why. Been doing this for years. Maybe the bearings are sometimes colder and stiffer than normal.

Other than that, it works fine.

Now as to trouble booting. if a laptop hangs on booting, you have a slight problem doing a hard reboot. Hitting the power button or pulling out the power cord won't work because the battery will kick in. (On a desktop, pulling the plug shuts off everything, of course.)

Therefore, to do a hard reboot (i.e., full reboot, without the computer looking for data on the status of the system when you last shut it down) you have to take out the battery, and then pull the plug.

Then leave the battery out and start the computer. A Toshiba will work with the battery out, but I have heard of Dells that won't. If you have a problem again, and the computer freezes, just pull the power plug.

After you get it going, do a proper restart twice and make sure it is working. I believe the registry keeps data from the last start or two as a backup.

If you don't use your laptop as a portable, you don't have to put the battery in. Just get a UPS to prevent crashing if the power flickers. Leaving the battery in shortens the battery life significantly on some computers by constantly charging it. I leave my battery out most of the time, and it is still fine after five years. But do put it in at least two or three times a year.

Getting the battery out on a Toshiba is not easy. I press a black piece of plastic on a black piece of plastic and pry out the black battery from the black case with a screwdriver. Don't force it, of course. While the little lever can be stiff, the battery should come out easily with a little encouragement.

If it runs, you are probably fine. You see, if you try to hibernate with Windows XP with a ton of windows open, sometimes it overloads the system on startup. The computer puts an image of your memory onto the harddrive when you go into hibernate. Then it puts that image back into memory on startup. But if you don't have Gigs of RAM, it will put a lot of that into a virtual RAM on the harddrive. Plus there may be all sorts of moving graphics on those web pages (avatars?) putting demands on the RAM and CPU. So sometimes your computer has a nervous breakdown when trying to restart. Wouldn't you?

Coming out of hibernation like this would cause your fan to run constantly because the CPU would be at 100 percent. (I wonder if the fan has an overdrive mode?) Hit CTRL+ALT+DEL and click on performance and you will see a chart of CPU activity. The fan bearings were probably cold and stiff, hence noisy. It is winter. Are they quiet after they warm up?

Doing a backup is a good idea, of course.

But I still think upgrading your harddrive is not a bad idea after two or three years. Take a look at the size and price of laptop harddrives these days. You could put in a bigger drive at a reasonable price. How does 120 GB sound? Also, you may be able to get a faster rotation speed, ie 5,400 or 7,200 rpm, plus a bigger RAM cache on the drive, which both speed up performance on a laptop considerably. (Laptop drives are usually slower than desktop drives.) That's what happened when I replaced mine, it was almost like getting a new laptop, and the drive was much quieter, too.

I'm not an expert on laptop brands, but I do know that Hitachi bought IBM, which made very advanced laptop drives. And Western Digital desktop drives have a lousy reputation for reliability.

If you have a shop do it, tell them you will install the Windows software, etc. yourself. Or they may be able to transfer all your software onto the new drive intact.

Here is an article on the subject:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11379_7-6445033-1.html

While you are at it, consider increasing your RAM, if you are still at the factory installed level. It is a cheap way to improve laptop performance.