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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: EU PARLIAMENT: WITH FRIENDS LIKE THESE, WHO NEEDS ENEMIES? |
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As if there wasn't already sufficient proof that European socialists are pandering to the Arab cause (whatever that is and however vaguely imagined it must be), read forthwith:
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U.S. says will not extradite CIA agents to Italy Mark John. AP
The United States will reject any request by Italy to extradite CIA agents for the first criminal trial over controversial U.S. "renditions" of terror suspects, a U.S. government lawyer said on Wednesday.
A Milan judge earlier this month ordered 26 Americans, most of them thought to be CIA agents, to stand trial with Italian spies for kidnapping a Muslim cleric and flying him to Egypt, where he says he was tortured.
"We've not got an extradition request from Italy ... If we got an extradition request from Italy, we would not extradite U.S. officials to Italy," State Department Legal Adviser John Bellinger told a news briefing.
Bellinger, in Brussels for meetings with European legal advisers, did not comment on details of the case but said the United States would never hand over a suspect to another country without assurances about their treatment.
He acknowledged widespread concern in Europe about the tactics of the Bush administration in what it calls the "war on terror" but said the risk of legal action against U.S. officials in Europe was harming intelligence cooperation.
"The continuing threat of criminal charges not only harms cooperation on our end but does also cast a pall over cooperation on the European side as well," he said.
"We get assurances from countries that individuals will be properly treated and if we can't get these assurances then we will not turn people over to those countries," he added.
Bellinger's remarks were no surprise and meant the indictees would probably stand trial in absentia on June 8.
THORN IN THE SIDE
Among those indicted for the 2003 abduction are Jeff Castelli, former CIA chief in Rome, former CIA Milan station chief Robert Lady and a former head of Italy's SISMI military intelligence agency, Nicolo Pollari.
Prosecutors say a CIA-led team, with SISMI's help, grabbed terrorism suspect Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, also known as Abu Omar, off a Milan street in February 2003, bundled him into a van and drove him to a military base in northern Italy.
Prosecutors allege the CIA flew him from there via Germany to Egypt, where he says he was tortured with electric shocks, beatings, rape threats and genital abuse.
Persistent criticism by European rights groups and lawmakers of U.S. anti-terror tactics and the alleged acquiescence of European governments has long troubled officials on both sides of the Atlantic.
A court in Munich issued arrest warrants last month for 13 suspected CIA agents accused of kidnapping a German of Lebanese descent and flying him to a jail in Afghanistan, where he too says he was tortured.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, a senior aide to former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, has also faced a barrage of criticism over charges that he blocked the release of a German-born Turkish man held in Guantanamo Bay prison.
A European Parliament report published this month said that renditions were illegal and had taken place with the collusion of a number of European governments and their secret services.
Bellinger rejected the report as an "unbalanced, inaccurate and unfair" interpretation of acceptable and important intelligence cooperation. |
It is somehow reassuring to know that despite all the self-serving, posturing and preening clueless socialist enablers in the European Parliament, there remain enough level-headed, realist politicos to "collude" with American intelligence services to take proactive measures to combat terrorism.
Oh, I know some will say how a few innocents got snared by the dragnet, and while that's very unfortunate, it'd be a heck of a lot more unfortunate for soldiers and civilians to die at the hands of these bloodthirsty Islamofascists. Genital abuse? Does that mean he can't spawn more terrorists? Breaks my heart.
Oh, wait, I know, we can't resort to dire measures even though we live in dire times. Principles must be upheld at all costs even if it means the unnecessary deaths of combatants and non-combatants alike. Yeah, well, too bad the Islamofascists don't play by the same rules of engagement. |
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English_Ocean
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Location: You don't have the right to abuse me!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! How many CIA agents does it take to perfect gential assult?
One day I decided to go out on a bender. I was gone for several days and when I awoke from my self induced festival I realized the wife was going to end my life. My plan of action: Blame the Americans!  Problem solved. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: |
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I'm confused by the title, because it makes a lot more sense to me if it reads
EU PARLIAMENT: "With friends like these, who needs enemies?"
I mean does the US think they can just snatch up anyone in Europe without prior approval?
And genital abuse? WTF is the CIA thinking? |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Kuros:
The allegations of various kinds of cruel and inhumane treatment are just that at this juncture: allegations, and made by people who understand the value of manipulating the Western press, especially when it is already sympathetic to anyone the Bush and Blair administrations oppose.
Some of those detained are known terrorists and I say extract from them whatever information one can by (almost) whatever means necessary. If it saves one soldier's life it will have been worth it in my book.
Bullsh-it principles aren't going to spare us from the wrath of Islamofascists nor give us peace of mind if the terrorists believe they will be coddled when captured. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: ... |
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PRESIDENT BUSH HAS STATED:
THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT TORTURE.
IS THAT A LIE? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Gopher, as usual, your true colors show through. "I'm a centrist." Bull. I'm an American. Bull. (You're a republican. There's a huge difference.)
Your post ignores the very well-documented research indicating torture simply does not result in reliable information.
Your post ignores the rule of law.
Your post is rife with hypocrisy. Were the renditions of Americans accused by any other foreign entity, whether justly or unjustly, you would raise bloody hell about it.
Etc.
You are irrelevant. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Kuros:
The allegations of various kinds of cruel and inhumane treatment are just that at this juncture: allegations, and made by people who understand the value of manipulating the Western press, especially when it is already sympathetic to anyone the Bush and Blair administrations oppose. |
I don't find them so easily dismissed. I do not believe that any members of the EU would drudge up such claims unless their suspicions were well grounded. Particularly not Italy, which is very concerned about terrorism. The CIA already conducted an abduction with a German citizen, Khaled el-Masri. The CIA does not deny it.
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| Some of those detained are known terrorists and I say extract from them whatever information one can by (almost) whatever means necessary. If it saves one soldier's life it will have been worth it in my book. |
If you are speaking of torture, there are reasons why it has been forbidden until military statutes. Not only is it cruel, it is ineffective. That's why the policies are only now being used by the Bush administration.
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| Bullsh-it principles aren't going to spare us from the wrath of Islamofascists nor give us peace of mind if the terrorists believe they will be coddled when captured. |
That's right. So why haven't Americans on the right abandoned their belief in torture? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| BLT No-Brainer wrote: |
| Gopher, as usual, your true colors show through... |
LOL. McGarrett and I are two separate posters.
Probably frustrates and bothers you that at least one other poster here articulates views similar to my own at times (and, by the way, the reason I have not participated in this thread is because I agree with Kuros's posts and had nothing more to contribute). If it does frustrate and bother you, though...Good. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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If McDumbya ain't your sock, you've somehow exchanged DNA.
Frustrating? No. Boring? Yes. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: EU PARLIAMENT: WITH FRIENDS LIKE THESE, WHO NEEDS ENEMIE |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
As if there wasn't already sufficient proof that European socialists are pandering to the Arab cause (whatever that is and however vaguely imagined it must be), read forthwith:
It is somehow reassuring to know that despite all the self-serving, posturing and preening clueless socialist enablers in the European Parliament, there remain enough level-headed, realist politicos to "collude" with American intelligence services to take proactive measures to combat terrorism.
Oh, I know some will say how a few innocents got snared by the dragnet, and while that's very unfortunate, it'd be a heck of a lot more unfortunate for soldiers and civilians to die at the hands of these bloodthirsty Islamofascists. Genital abuse? Does that mean he can't spawn more terrorists? Breaks my heart.
Oh, wait, I know, we can't resort to dire measures even though we live in dire times. Principles must be upheld at all costs even if it means the unnecessary deaths of combatants and non-combatants alike. Yeah, well, too bad the Islamofascists don't play by the same rules of engagement. |
I guess Europe will have to send their secret agents to the US of A and start meddling with American politics and such.
There is such a thing as a nations undisputed right to govern its country the way it seems rioght to do so, WITHOUT interference fron others. Certainyl not in a covert way. Influence can always be excerted in a public manner, but when the truth is hidden, sonething fishy is ging down, and the country has the right to know why.
And YES
Principles NEED TO BE UPHELD, even in the direst of times.
You sir, i have concluded, are a bigot. This is not an insult, it is a fact.
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.
You really have absolutely no respect for what lies outside of the US, or even inside the US if it doesn't fit your way of life.
What's wrong with socialists anyway?
Combating terrorists with terrorism is not really a solution is it? |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Kuros:
The allegations of various kinds of cruel and inhumane treatment are just that at this juncture: allegations, and made by people who understand the value of manipulating the Western press, especially when it is already sympathetic to anyone the Bush and Blair administrations oppose.
Some of those detained are known terrorists and I say extract from them whatever information one can by (almost) whatever means necessary. If it saves one soldier's life it will have been worth it in my book.
Bullsh-it principles aren't going to spare us from the wrath of Islamofascists nor give us peace of mind if the terrorists believe they will be coddled when captured. |
I guess US of A is no longer the land of the free .... |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Juregen:
What weed do you grow in that monastery garden of yours? Do you really think that the CIA spirited away these nationals without the assistance of anyone in the governments of said nations? Come, come, now; let's not be disingenuous here.
Read the article again, or others on the same topic, and you can plainly see that it is those seeking political gain in their respective parliaments who are pushing this issue along.
Do you really believe the CIA (who couldn't get the intelligence straight on WMDs in Iraq) is capable of conducting such a widespread covert operation without assistance, including officials looking the other way because they themselves don't want to deal with these hot potatoes?
Gimme a break. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Do you really think that the CIA spirited away these nationals without the assistance of anyone in the governments of said nations? Come, come, now; let's not be disingenuous here. |
Didn't you imply above the mistreatment, which is fact, never even happened? Are you senile or just stupid?
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| Read the article again, or others on the same topic, and you can plainly see that it is those seeking political gain in their respective parliaments who are pushing this issue along. |
What's your point? I'm seeking political gain too: I want my country back. Guess my opinion that the renditions were bad for the US is moot because of the political goal of getting my country back from the scum who have hijacked it?
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| Do you really believe the CIA (who couldn't get the intelligence straight on WMDs in Iraq) |
Got to love this lie. Yeah, Iraq happened because of "faulty" intelligence. Actually, this is quite true: that intelligence created by the Bush Cadre with malice aforethought, particularly through the office of special operations in the pentagon. Or have you not read the Pentagon's own review?
How does someone who lies as you do sleep at night? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Do you really believe the CIA (who couldn't get the intelligence straight on WMDs in Iraq) is capable of conducting such a widespread covert operation without assistance, including officials looking the other way because they themselves don't want to deal with these hot potatoes? |
Critics entirely and stubbornly overlook this point in any discussion treating CIA-sponsored covert action anywhere.
Defend the U.S.-centric, allegation-driven discourse at all costs...even the larger truth. |
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