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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: SENOR CHAVEZ: WHOSE POOR DO YOU CARE ABOUT? |
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We all know by now that Hugo Chavez fancies himself the next Fidel Castro. Probably has a shrine to the Cuban dictator on his veranda. At any rate, he's still obsessing on Bush and having wild dreams about the Yankees going home.
But for those of you who think Chavez actually cares about all the world's disadvantaged and downtrodden, read on. It is well documented that the inner cities of the U.S., Canada, and Europe are inordinately affected by drugs and yet this:
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U.S. faults friends, foes in drug war
By MATTHEW LEE, Associated Press Writer Mar 1
The United States said Thursday that top anti-terror allies Afghanistan, Pakistan and Colombia had fallen short in the war on drugs despite enhanced counter-narcotics efforts and it criticized perennial foes Iran, North Korea and Venezuela for not cooperating.
The State Department also noted backsliding in some key Latin American nations like Bolivia and Peru while it praised improved performances by traditional transshipment countries in Asia, notably China and Thailand, but slammed neighboring Myanmar for illicit drugKKI production....In the Western Hemisphere, Colombia, Venezuela and Bolivia were identified once again as major suppliers of illegal drugs, mainly cocaine, to the U.S., Europe and Asia.
Ahead of Bush's trip to Latin America next week that will include Colombia, only Bogota, however, was singled out for positive efforts in the drug war fight with the report pointing out that President Alvaro Uribe's government is "completely committed to fighting the production and trade in illicit drugs." It pointed out that Colombia has extradited 417 drug suspects to the U.S since 2002, 102 of them last year alone and that Colombian efforts, aided by American funds, had led to significant increases in the spraying and destruction of coca crops.
This was not the case in either Venezuela and Bolivia, both of which are led by anti-U.S. leftists, where the report said hostile governments had either refused to cooperate or were lagging in the counter-narcotics field. Under President Hugo Chavez, Venezuela was cited by the U.S. in both 2005 and 2006 as having "failed demonstrably" to comply with its international anti-drug commitments, a situation that remains constant, the department said. Because of this, it said, "organized crime is flourishing and (drug) seizures and arrests are limited to low-level actors." The government of Bolivian President Evo Morales, a backer and still the leader of a major coca growers union who has campaigned for some legal use of coca, also came in for criticism in the report for failing to deal with increased production. "This year (2006) represented the lowest level of eradication in more than 10 years," it said.... |
So Chavez and his socialist sympathizers in Bolivia and now Peru put narrow political interests ahead of human wellbeing. Of course, if this were the reverse, there would be a huge outcry in the UN.
C'mon, leftists and other anti-American, anti-Bush posters, let's see you justify Hugo's hypocrisy on this score |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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I hate Hugo Chavez. Hate him. And as someone who thinks himself a blossoming economist, I can quite assuredly assert that he will run his country into the ground and make it much more poor.
BUT
The war on drugs is the largest public policy failure since slavery. It is the single most destructive force in the world today. It drives organized crime (sometimes called terrorism) and limits freedom.
These Latin American states (Peru, Columbia, Bolivia especially) should not bow to their masters and eradicate a crop that will bring them economic benefit. Coco leaves are a historical part of their cultures and we should stay the hell out of their business.
Just because affluent nations LOVE do to coke (because it is fun, and quite harmless in moderate amounts), but also love to throw the minorities who sell it to them in jail doesn't mean that states around the world have to limit their supply.
The problem is demand.
http://www.vbs.tv/player.php?bctid=570307540
Click "news" and then "Bolivian Marching Powder". Great stuff. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Are you claiming the following Stevie:
Anti-Bush = Anti- American = Left = Pro Chavez? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahh, so now we should hate Chavez for drugs. God job steve, more nonsense. The fact that its easier to get smack in jail than it is on the street is the perfect example as to why the "War on Drugs" is a total and complete failure. The war was lost decades ago and is now just a giant make-work buracratic project. Anyone who supports the war on drugs is a tool, and uneducated one on that. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hite Report:
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| Anyone who supports the war on drugs is a tool, and uneducated one on that. |
Oh, really? So the narcotics units of police departments are tools just wasting their time? Bet you wouldn't feel that way if you were forced to live in a drug-infested neighborhood, chump. Your lack of concern given your leftist views is revealing to say the least but not surprising. Most leftists are the worst kind of elitists.
And "hating Chavez" is a juvenile expression. I'm merely pointing out his hypocrisy and the insincerity in his clarion call to strike back at imperialism. And if he's serious about doing that, by the way, he'd cut the flow of Venezuelan oil to the U.S., some of which goes into the strategic reserve. Bet you can't rationalize that away. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| So the narcotics units of police departments are tools just wasting their time |
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
The US/NATO invaded Afghanistan and opium production is at an all time high. Yes, the police are wasting their time. Neighbourhoods (and anyone who has been to Harlem recently can testify to this) are turned around by the process of gentrification, not police enforcement. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hite:
After reading your most recent post, I'm so glad you left the West. Your kind of defeatist, degenerate thinking is already in abundant supply there, unfortunately. Please do us all a favor and go establish a fiefdom in the Mongolian steppes. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, name one major Drug War success. Have the amount of drugs gone down? NO. Are there less users of drugs? NO Have drugs become less powerful? NO
So all the major aims that were set as the benchmark for success have been totally missed. I'm not a defeatist, I'm a realist. You don't know what the hell you're talking about, you're just a cranky old man who tells his buddies at the pub how he hates "the dope". |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Hite Report:
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| Anyone who supports the war on drugs is a tool, and uneducated one on that. |
Oh, really? So the narcotics units of police departments are tools just wasting their time? Bet you wouldn't feel that way if you were forced to live in a drug-infested neighborhood, chump. Your lack of concern given your leftist views is revealing to say the least but not surprising. Most leftists are the worst kind of elitists.
And "hating Chavez" is a juvenile expression. I'm merely pointing out his hypocrisy and the insincerity in his clarion call to strike back at imperialism. And if he's serious about doing that, by the way, he'd cut the flow of Venezuelan oil to the U.S., some of which goes into the strategic reserve. Bet you can't rationalize that away. |
Fine, them I'm juvenile. I detest, and yes, hate that thug. He is destroying his country and is a hero to leftists the world over. He is right behind dd on my 'wish they would spontaneously combust list'.
Regarding drugs,
If America is the "land of the free, home of the brave", then eventually it is going to have to be brave enough to let her citizens freely own their bodies. Full stop. If I own my body then I am freely able to put into it whatever please. If I do not have that right, then I do not own my body.
The police aren't wasting their time, if the goal is to increase profits for cartels, lower drug quality, incarcerate 1/5 black men, and provide a monopoly on getting high to liquor/cig/pharm firms.
Getting high is part of the human experience and has been for as long as we have existed (as in, when god snapped his fingers and put a dude and dame in a garden). We like getting high. We LOVE getting high. "Drugs" (the illegal variety) are only one way of doing it. Give it a try, Stevie, you might enjoy it.
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Bet you wouldn't feel that way if you were forced to live in a drug-infested neighborhood, chump. |
Why are there no alcohol infested neighborhoods? Ah, right, they are called bars.
Read up on prohibition. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Chavez' taunting, obsessive demonizing of Bush makes him look ridiculous. He and that moron from Iran with his ill-fitting suits. What Bush may lack in judgment he makes up for in class by ignoring Chavez. And Hugo needs to stay away from those enchiladas and sour cream before he becomes a puffy-faced Santa of the South. |
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W.T.Carl
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Any poor person in Chavez's country would kill to have the standard of living of a poor person in the US. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Chavez' taunting, obsessive demonizing of Bush makes him look ridiculous. He and that moron from Iran with his ill-fitting suits. What Bush may lack in judgment he makes up for in class by ignoring Chavez. And Hugo needs to stay away from those enchiladas and sour cream before he becomes a puffy-faced Santa of the South. |
Yes, Chavez is engaging in lots of rhetoric, looked bad when he was bad mouthing Bush in Harlem etc... People on the right have acted like Chavez vis-a-vis people on the Left only a couple of years back. George Bush has class? His father did. James Baker did. He doesn't. Maybe compared to Chavez he does, but that isn't saying much. Civility is also seriously lacking in the U.S. as well between the different political camps and even on this board. I mean your response to Hite isn't really classy. You keep slamming him on a personal level just like Chavez does.
As far as coca leaves, Bolivians have the right to grow it. They just shouldn't be selling cocaine. I am not a fan of legalizing drugs except for marijuana. I know BJWD wants drugs legalized but Heroin is killing many rich white kids if you haven't heard. Marijuana doesn't kill.
That is where I stand on the issue. If cocaine and heroin weren't so potentially dangerous I would support legalizing them.
As far as I know 2/3rd of the world's cocaine use is in the United States.
Why is that? People in other countries are maybe more content and tend to turn less to drugs. I am not sure. I do think instead of focusing on the suppliers of drugs, people need to see a cultural shift, and it doesn't mean being ultra conservative. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| As far as coca leaves, Bolivians have the right to grow it. They just shouldn't be selling cocaine... |
Adventurer: nice idealism. Little relationship with ground conditions, though.
Start with Gabriela Tarazona-Sevillano's Sendero Luminoso and the Threat of Narcoterrorism. Old but still illustrates local govts' problems vis-a-vis their failed attempts to control narcotics at the grass-roots level while at the same time trying to modernize nations like Bolivia and Peru.
There is no room for idealism in this situation, then: if Bolivians may grow coca, then we will continue to see narcotraficantes and their middlemen convert this very marketable product into drugs; if Bolivians may not grow coca, that is one way to dent the drug problem but will harm Bolivia's economy at the grass-roots level and potentially beyond.
Terrible, realistic choices must be made, then. Much more than mere abstract paradigm shifts -- that is, your call to focus on consumption rather than production -- are called for, Adventurer.
| Adventurer wrote: |
| As far as I know 2/3rd of the world's cocaine use is in the United States...People in other countries are maybe more content... |
Please cite your source. How did you arrive at this conclusion? And do you implicitly suggest that "people in other countries" and their governments are therefore somehow morally superior to Americans? Or that America primarily and decisively accounts for the world's drug problems today? If not, please clarify this point, too.
Everywhere I have lived and every nonAmerican I have come into contact with shows or reports evidence that strongly suggests to me that drug abuse is widespread around the world -- in Brazil, in Canada, in Chile, in Iran, in Mexico.
And, by the way, is not a major center of drug production and consumption, and has this not been so for quite a while -- as in millenia before any Britisher set foot in Plymouth Colony -- Asia? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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And, by the way, is not a major center of drug production and consumption, and has this not been so for quite a while -- as in millenia before any Britisher set foot in Plymouth Colony -- Asia?
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Where do you think Opium comes from??? Asia. Afghanistan, Thailand, Burma, Cambodia, Laos.
Asians may not use it that much but this is a direct result of government tyranny. Even in Korea, using drugs 30 years ago would have Mr. Park throwing you out a helicopter window of cutting your hand off.
My body, my choice.
And if it wasn't illegal, with the US narco beaurocracy chasing it around we may have a chance to prevent nacrostates. When you make something illegal you make people criminals. That leads to narcostates. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Coke and heroin are dangerous because they are illegal. If they were manufactured under proper, sanitary and regulated conditions, sold in a pharmacy with instructions/safety warnings etc and people felt comfortable seeing a Dr or ER when overdoes was a possibility then they would NOT be dangerous.
If these drugs were legal and firms allowed to sell them, the drug violence all over the world would disappear overnight. In a black market, the only way to resolve problems is with violence. Budweiser isn't going to drive-by PBR.
Brazil is the world's second largest coke market, and with America being the first. Europe the rest of Latin America love their blow too.
Lastly, if drugs were legal, then pham firms would be free to explore safe alternatives to the garbage drugs now (crack, meth etc). They would research, test, apply for FDA approval and market pills that made us feel good on a Friday night. I would suggest that use of the 'dirty' drugs would all but disappear, as has drinking moonshine. |
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