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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: Being too formal is an insult |
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| I didn't realize this but my GF notes in Korean you can insult a person by suddenly speaking to the person in a formal manner. When a relationship has been established where you talk to each other using informal verb endings, if you suddenly switch to formal verb endings, you're signaling an icing of relations. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| It's the same in English.. |
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Zoidberg
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Location: Somewhere too hot for my delicate marine constitution
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I imagine this is the case in most languages, since politeness generally equals distance. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| It's the same in English.. |
Indeed. It's a bit like calling the person serving you coffee "your highness".
It's just interesting that you might actually be considered rude or signal something you don't want to signal if you are too formal. There's a tendency to learn only the formal verb conjugation and that can backfire. Can't go wrong being too polite, right? I guess you can. |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
| It's the same in English.. |
Indeed. It's a bit like calling the person serving you coffee "your highness".
It's just interesting that you might actually be considered rude or signal something you don't want to signal if you are too formal. There's a tendency to learn only the formal verb conjugation and that can backfire. Can't go wrong being too polite, right? I guess you can. |
I think the idea about not being able to go wrong by being too polite only refers to initial meetings and perhaps a few subsequent meetings depending on if the ice has been sufficiently broken. |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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That's another reason why I can only shake my head and say, "이상해."
Sometimes I make myself freak when I use panmal, and I second guess whether it's acceptable or not.
It seems to be useful with pple you've known a little while even with a five or seven year age gap.
But, not much more age than that. It's a boundary, even with older family brothers. Panmal with my 4 year older brother, okay. Panmal with the oldest 10 year difference brother = death sentence.
Or, a stern warning. HAHA.
I've got a question for yah, do you find you want to use more adjectives but are more restricted to a verb type, due to the nature of the kids that you teach and the language you pick up?
Like: '김mossi 날 떄리었어요. '
'Oh, it was a hard hit?' (My adjective phrase)
네, 힘세게 때렸어요. (Their verbphrase)
Why the use of verbs so much? |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| This tread is intriguing, kind sirs. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Don't they (Koreans) usually give us more leeway when it comes to these things because we're foreigners though?
I've used panmal to my boss a few times without realizing it, and while he did correct me (that's how I know) he wasn't upset about it at all (I apologized anyway, and he assured me it was okay).
Generally speaking, wouldn't they be forgiving about the reverse too- inappropriate formality? |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Cheonmunka wrote: |
That's another reason why I can only shake my head and say, "이상해."
Sometimes I make myself freak when I use panmal, and I second guess whether it's acceptable or not.
It seems to be useful with pple you've known a little while even with a five or seven year age gap.
But, not much more age than that. It's a boundary, even with older family brothers. Panmal with my 4 year older brother, okay. Panmal with the oldest 10 year difference brother = death sentence.
Or, a stern warning. HAHA. |
My experience is the opposite to that, but perhaps it differs.
| Quote: |
I've got a question for yah, do you find you want to use more adjectives but are more restricted to a verb type, due to the nature of the kids that you teach and the language you pick up?
Like: '김mossi 날 떄리었어요. '
'Oh, it was a hard hit?' (My adjective phrase)
네, 힘세게 때렸어요. (Their verbphrase)
Why the use of verbs so much? |
I don't quite understand your examples. The first should be 날 때렸어요 which I think means 'you beat me' and 네, 힘세게 때렸어요 means 'struck powerfully' and contains the abverb 힘세게.
I know what you mean about verbs. Recently I wrote 'important', 'expensive', 'tasty', 'interesting' on the board, asked a bunch of Koreans what these words are, and they said 'verbs'. That's because they think of these things as containing the verb 'to be'....중요해요, 맛있다, 재미있다 and so forth whereas English doesn't have this.
The best way to look at Korean verb usage is to think of 'descriptive verbs' as being able to say something in one word that English requires a sentence for. For example 중요해요 = it is important.
There are other examples of this in Korean too, for example when verbs are changed into adjectives......어제 만난 사람 = the person that we met yesterday (here "met" is changed into an adjective very simply, whereas English requires a full clause).
The idea of 'descriptive verbs' (  ) and changing verbs into adjectives ( ) is weird as hell at first, but after a while it seems like the most natural thing in the world. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| HapKi wrote: |
| This tread is intriguing, kind sirs. |
How dare you!  |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Cheonmunka wrote: |
I've got a question for yah, do you find you want to use more adjectives but are more restricted to a verb type, due to the nature of the kids that you teach and the language you pick up?
Like: '김mossi 날 떄리었어요. '
'Oh, it was a hard hit?' (My adjective phrase)
네, 힘세게 때렸어요. (Their verbphrase)
Why the use of verbs so much? |
Just one of the problems of learning a completely different language: they sometimes use a verb where we would use an adjective and vice versa. Similarly, they sometimes use a passive verb where we would use an active verb and vice versa. Just one of many many sources of confusion. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The idea of 'descriptive verbs' ( Shocked ) and changing verbs into adjectives ( Shocked ) is weird as hell at first, but after a while it seems like the most natural thing in the world. |
To me, it just means Korean uses gerunds and participles instead of true adjectives, like English. Which actually allows it to be a lot more flexible and concise. Any verb can be an adjective, or adverb! |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
There are other examples of this in Korean too, for example when verbs are changed into adjectives......어제 만난 사람 = the person that we met yesterday (here "met" is changed into an adjective very simply, whereas English requires a full clause).
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But sometimes you can change them into adjectives, or something that looks like an adjective.
뛰어가는 남자 = the running man
What's kinda funny is this doesn't work for the past tense
뛰어갔던 남자 = the ran man?
edit- now that i've looked it up, i guess this is just a participle. And you can do it in the past tense, but it only works for passive verbs and a few active intransitive verbs (fallen comrades). learn something new (or old) everyday |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| ...what about 뛰어간 남자? Hey presto, past tense. Wouldn't 뛰어갔던 남자 mean the man who used to be a runner, but isn't now? |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
| ...what about 뛰어간 남자? Hey presto, past tense. Wouldn't 뛰어갔던 남자 mean the man who used to be a runner, but isn't now? |
i mean it doesn't work in english.
And I believe 뛰어갔던 남자 refers to a man who ran at one specific point in time. I don't think it implies anything about his current career as a runner. Both 뛰어갔던 남자 and 뛰어간 남자 would probably be translated as "the man who ran" but I'm not sure.
edit- alright, it was bugging me so I looked it up. 뛰어던 남자 would be "the man who used to run" (implying he no longer runs) but 뛰어갔던 would be "the man who ran" with the implication that he ran just once and that's it. It's probably a bad example because who runs just once? |
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