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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: Return of 15 British Sailors |
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I think that if they aren't returned soon without apology from the UK govt (providing it can be agreed by the UN that they were in interantional waters) their should be UN sanctions on Iran. If the UN waiver on this issue and do not support the release of the 15, I wholly believe the UK should attack Iran or launch a rescue misson should negotiations fail.
What do others think....? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I wholly believe the UK should attack Iran or launch a rescue misson should negotiations fail. |
Hehehehe... What do you think this is, the Falklands? Iran has more than one serviceable anti-shipping missile, you know.
From today's Guardian:
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Terry Jones
Saturday March 31, 2007
The Guardian
I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this - allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world - have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God's sake, what's wrong with putting a bag over her head? That's what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it's hard to breathe. Then it's perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can't be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.
It is also unacceptable that these British captives should be made to talk on television and say things that they may regret later. If the Iranians put duct tape over their mouths, like we do to our captives, they wouldn't be able to talk at all. Of course they'd probably find it even harder to breathe - especially with a bag over their head - but at least they wouldn't be humiliated.
And what's all this about allowing the captives to write letters home saying they are all right? It's time the Iranians fell into line with the rest of the civilised world: they should allow their captives the privacy of solitary confinement. That's one of the many privileges the US grants to its captives in Guant�namo Bay.
The true mark of a civilised country is that it doesn't rush into charging people whom it has arbitrarily arrested in places it's just invaded. The inmates of Guant�namo, for example, have been enjoying all the privacy they want for almost five years, and the first inmate has only just been charged. What a contrast to the disgraceful Iranian rush to parade their captives before the cameras!
What's more, it is clear that the Iranians are not giving their British prisoners any decent physical exercise. The US military make sure that their Iraqi captives enjoy PT. This takes the form of exciting "stress positions", which the captives are expected to hold for hours on end so as to improve their stomach and calf muscles. A common exercise is where they are made to stand on the balls of their feet and then squat so that their thighs are parallel to the ground. This creates intense pain and, finally, muscle failure. It's all good healthy fun and has the bonus that the captives will confess to anything to get out of it.
And this brings me to my final point. It is clear from her TV appearance that servicewoman Turney has been put under pressure. The newspapers have persuaded behavioural psychologists to examine the footage and they all conclude that she is "unhappy and stressed".
What is so appalling is the underhand way in which the Iranians have got her "unhappy and stressed". She shows no signs of electrocution or burn marks and there are no signs of beating on her face. This is unacceptable. If captives are to be put under duress, such as by forcing them into compromising sexual positions, or having electric shocks to their genitals, they should be photographed, as they were in Abu Ghraib. The photographs should then be circulated around the civilised world so that everyone can see exactly what has been going on.
As Stephen Glover pointed out in the Daily Mail, perhaps it would not be right to bomb Iran in retaliation for the humiliation of our servicemen, but clearly the Iranian people must be made to suffer - whether by beefing up sanctions, as the Mail suggests, or simply by getting President Bush to hurry up and invade, as he intends to anyway, and bring democracy and western values to the country, as he has in Iraq.
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the West, namely the US, wants to drag situations like this out, to extract maximum negative press about Iran to bolster public opinion to justify attacking them and taking out their nuclear program. |
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The Hierophant
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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This whole situation is soooo 2003.  |
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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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This situation is no different than the Iran Hostage Crisis (1979-81) where American embassy workers were held hostage for 444 days.
I was talking about this today and we came to the conclusion that Iran was out of the terrorism business during the 80's because of; a) the war with Iraq b) Iran saw what happened to Libya when the US retaliates for terrorism.
But the problem is Iran has built up its support base in Syria and Lebanon (where IRG were assisting Hezb'allah fighters fight off a major Israeli onslaught)
As for Al Qaeda, they hate them as much as the west does (there are instances where Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters actually fought Iranian soldiers on the Iranian/Afghan border regions.
The one advantage that the west has in Iran are its youth and its minorities- most young people can't stomach the restrictions placed on them by the guardian council and Iran has always been notoriously harsh with its handling of minorities.
The one thing that binds people together in Iran is religion, if people perceive their religion as being under attack, then they would raise up (seen in many instances throughout history, notably the crusades)
I honestly think Britain as being a more flexible nation than the US and I know England and Iran will come to some kind of agreement soon
It was a political ploy... |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I believe the US govt will milk this for as much as possible. This puts Britain in the position of course of letting them - ie - exploiting their backing as we know they will both back us up because of our back up of the Iraq War and for their own reasons...
Re the what the Guardian wally wrote - it wasn't the UK that opened and operated Guantanamo! |
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gsxr750r
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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The US didn't put Britian in this position.
Iran did.
This is Britain's problem. America will stand by them, but British have to deal with it. If they want to put their tail between their legs and admit fault where there was none, then so be it. British citizens will have to decide, at what point, they will decide to defend themselves. I can guarentee you that they will never stop being pushed.
I'm sorry you don't like having to deal with it. Sometimes people are forced to make choices that they don't like.
And you should be thanking Bush for exacerbating this Moslem problem now. In 30 years, Britain would have been overrun by like-minded Moslem individuals, and it would have been too late to stop it.
We're dealing with a mess now that would be unavoidable in the future, anyway. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Return of 15 British Sailors |
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| venus wrote: |
I wholly believe the UK should attack Iran or launch a rescue misson should negotiations fail.
What do others think....? |
I think that elements of the SAS/SBS are already on the ground in Iran. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| lastat06513 wrote: |
| The one advantage that the west has in Iran are its youth and its minorities- most young people can't stomach the restrictions placed on them by the guardian council and Iran has always been notoriously harsh with its handling of minorities. |
I completely 100% agree with this. Iran's young people are no different than young people from the west. They like the same things and are very westerniz..... modernized. In 20 years, these people will control the country and I think there will be a huge change in politics. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Did anybody think that maybe they were in Iranian waters? |
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gsxr750r
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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The funny thing about tht is Iran and Britain provided coordinates to the world the day after it happened.
And guess what.... BOTH coordinates from BOTH countries showed they were in Iraqi waters.
After this was pointed-out by Britain, the Iranian gov't quickly provided new coordinates, placing the act inside Iranian waters.
I'm sure that made for some funny remarks in the House of Commons! |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Return of 15 British Sailors |
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| venus wrote: |
I think that if they aren't returned soon without apology from the UK govt (providing it can be agreed by the UN that they were in interantional waters) their should be UN sanctions on Iran. If the UN waiver on this issue and do not support the release of the 15, I wholly believe the UK should attack Iran or launch a rescue misson should negotiations fail.
What do others think....? |
I think you are in the wrong forum...
isn't this a "current event" thing?
I don't see how this relates to living in Korea. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| I think the West, namely the US, wants to drag situations like this out, to extract maximum negative press about Iran to bolster public opinion to justify attacking them and taking out their nuclear program. |
Not at all. Iran makes the negative press enough in the US (nuclear weapons pursuits, helping train fighters in Iraq, etc.). The US doesn't want allies' soldiers as prisoners any more than the UK does. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| This does not belong on this forum. |
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knee-highs
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Location: yes
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I wholly believe the UK should attack Iran or launch a rescue misson should negotiations fail. |
Hehehehe... What do you think this is, the Falklands? Iran has more than one serviceable anti-shipping missile, you know.
From today's Guardian:
| Quote: |
Terry Jones
Saturday March 31, 2007
The Guardian
I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this - allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world - have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God's sake, what's wrong with putting a bag over her head? That's what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it's hard to breathe. Then it's perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can't be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.
It is also unacceptable that these British captives should be made to talk on television and say things that they may regret later. If the Iranians put duct tape over their mouths, like we do to our captives, they wouldn't be able to talk at all. Of course they'd probably find it even harder to breathe - especially with a bag over their head - but at least they wouldn't be humiliated.
And what's all this about allowing the captives to write letters home saying they are all right? It's time the Iranians fell into line with the rest of the civilised world: they should allow their captives the privacy of solitary confinement. That's one of the many privileges the US grants to its captives in Guant�namo Bay.
The true mark of a civilised country is that it doesn't rush into charging people whom it has arbitrarily arrested in places it's just invaded. The inmates of Guant�namo, for example, have been enjoying all the privacy they want for almost five years, and the first inmate has only just been charged. What a contrast to the disgraceful Iranian rush to parade their captives before the cameras!
What's more, it is clear that the Iranians are not giving their British prisoners any decent physical exercise. The US military make sure that their Iraqi captives enjoy PT. This takes the form of exciting "stress positions", which the captives are expected to hold for hours on end so as to improve their stomach and calf muscles. A common exercise is where they are made to stand on the balls of their feet and then squat so that their thighs are parallel to the ground. This creates intense pain and, finally, muscle failure. It's all good healthy fun and has the bonus that the captives will confess to anything to get out of it.
And this brings me to my final point. It is clear from her TV appearance that servicewoman Turney has been put under pressure. The newspapers have persuaded behavioural psychologists to examine the footage and they all conclude that she is "unhappy and stressed".
What is so appalling is the underhand way in which the Iranians have got her "unhappy and stressed". She shows no signs of electrocution or burn marks and there are no signs of beating on her face. This is unacceptable. If captives are to be put under duress, such as by forcing them into compromising sexual positions, or having electric shocks to their genitals, they should be photographed, as they were in Abu Ghraib. The photographs should then be circulated around the civilised world so that everyone can see exactly what has been going on.
As Stephen Glover pointed out in the Daily Mail, perhaps it would not be right to bomb Iran in retaliation for the humiliation of our servicemen, but clearly the Iranian people must be made to suffer - whether by beefing up sanctions, as the Mail suggests, or simply by getting President Bush to hurry up and invade, as he intends to anyway, and bring democracy and western values to the country, as he has in Iraq.
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not the flaklands.... hehehe |
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