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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: ISRAEL'S SACRED TERRORISM |
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Junior has demonstrated a liking for myth-busting about the Israel/Palestinian conflict. I thought he might appreciate the following website: ISRAEL'S SACRED TERRORISM
Here is an extract (the Introduction) complete with highlights for those just wishing to browse...
INTRODUCTION
POPULAR SUPPORT of Israel over the last quarter of a century has been based on a number of myths, the most Persistent of which has been the myth of lsrael's security, Implying the permanent existence of grave threats to the survival of Jewish society in Palestine, this myth has been carefully cultivated to evoke anxious images in public opinion to permit, and even encourage, the use of large amounts of public funds to sustain Israel militarily and economically. "Israel's security" is the official argument with which not only Israel but also the U.S. denies the right of self-determination in their own country to the Palestinian people. For the past three decades it has been accepted as a legitimate explanation for lsrael's violation of international resolutions calling for the return of the Palestinian people to their homes. Over the past thirteen years Israel has been allowed to evoke its security to justify its refusal to retreat from the Arab and Palestinian territories occupied in 1967. Security is still the pretext given by successive Israeli governments for widespread massacres of civilian populations in Lebanon, for expropriations of Arab lands, for the establishment of Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, for deportations, and for arbitrary detentions of political prisoners. Although the security of the Arab populations in the whole region has been repeatedly threatened over these years by overt and covert warfare, terrorist plots and subversive designs, and although UN resolutions demand the establishment of secure borders for all states in the region, so far only lsrael's security has been at the center of international discussion.
The persistence of the myth of Israel's security shows that there is considerable public belief in the so-called Arab commitment to eliminate the Jewish state. Most of the distinguished Western writers who present this case derive their arguments from Zionist versions of events in the late 1940s, at the time of the establishment of Israel, and in the mid-1950s, when Nasser came to power. They go on from these arguments to present Israel's so-called struggle for security and survival as a moral issue. The media often furnish politicians, who have other reasons for their political and military support of Israel, with the convenient issue of the West's moral commitment to Israel.
Other versions or approaches to the facts have more often than not been ignored. For example, recent disclosures by Nahum Goldmann (Le Monde Diplomatique, August 1979) have gone practically unnoticed. Goldmann, who for more than thirty years headed the pro-Zionist World .Jewish Congress, charges that the Arabs were not consulted about the partition of Palestine in 1947, and further that their willingness to negotiate a political compromise that might have prevented the 1948 war was vetoed and undermined by Ben Gurion before May 1948.
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One of the moderators has complained that this post is too long...so I've cut it...and will post snippets of it in new posts.
See a few posts further down...
Last edited by Big_Bird on Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Uranus
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Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Bird, why do you hate "Isralies"? Do you have a Palestinian lover you are defending? |
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R. S. Refugee

Joined: 29 Sep 2004 Location: Shangra La, ROK
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: |
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Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.
It seems that the drivers of Israeli policy are the ones who hate Israelis, not you and your ....
I don't think that you hate "Isralies" either, whatever they are.  |
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Boodleheimer

Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Location: working undercover for the Man
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.
It seems that the drivers of Israeli policy are the ones who hate Israelis, not you and your ....
I don't think that you hate "Isralies" either, whatever they are.  |
agreed. i mean, i don't hate Israelis or Isralies (I have Israeli friends), but I dislike the politics of the Likud party in particular, and i'm completely against the occupation |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Drivel.
You think there has never been an Arab threat to Israel??
maybe they should test the theory and disband the army, take down the border posts, checkpoints, and see what happens. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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The recently published Personal Diary of Moshe Sharett (Yoman Ishi. Tel Aviv: Ma'ariv, 1979, in Hebrew) now offers a decisive and authoritative contribution to the demystification of the myth of lsrael's security and its security policies. Between 1933 and 1948 Sharett guided the foreign relations of the Zionist movement, as head of the Jewish Agency's Political Department, and from 1948 to 1956 he was lsrael's foreign minister. In 1954 and 1955 he was its prime minister as well. The following pages present extracts from Sharett's diary demonstrating the following points:
1 .The Israeli political /military establishment never seriously believed in an Arab threat to the existence of Israel. On the contrary, it sought and applied every means to exacerbate the dilemma of the Arab regimes after the 1948 war. The Arab governments were extremely reluctant to engage in any military confrontation with Israel, yet in order to survive they needed to project to their populations and to the exiled Palestinians in their countries some kind of reaction to lsrael's aggressive policies and continuous acts of harassment. In other words, the Arab threat was an Israeli-invented myth which for internal and inter-Arab reasons the Arab regimes could not completely deny, though they constantly feared Israeli preparations for a new war.
2. The Israeli political/military establishment aimed at pushing the Arab states into military confrontations which the Israeli leaders were invariably certain of winning. The goal of these confrontations was to modify the balance of power in the region radically, transforming the Zionist state into the major power in the Middle East.
3. In order to achieve this strategic purpose the following tactics were used:
a) Large- and small-scale military operations aimed at civilian populations across the armistice lines, especially in the Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza, then respectively under the control of Jordan and Egypt. These operations had a double purpose: to terrorize the populations, and to create a permanent destabilization stemming from tensions between the Arab governments and the populations, who felt they were not adequately protected against Israeli aggression.
b) Military operations against Arab military installations in border areas to undermine the morale of the armies and intensify the regimes' destabilization from inside their military structures.
c) Covert terrorist operations in depth inside the Arab world, used for both espionage and to create fear, tension and instability.
4. lsrael's achievement of its strategic purpose was to be realized through the following means:
a) New territorial conquests through war. Although the 1949-50 armistice agreements assigned to Israel a territory one-third larger than had the UN partition plan, the Israeli leadership was still not satisfied with the size of the state, the borders of which it had committed itself to respect on the international level. It sought to recover at least the borders of mandate Palestine. The territorial dimension was considered to be a vital factor in Israel's transformation into a regional power.
b) Political as well as military efforts to bring about the liquidation of all Arab and Palestinian claims to Palestine through the dispersion of the Palestinian refugees of the 1947-49 war to faraway parts of the Arab world as well as outside the Arab world.
c) Subversive operations designed to dismember the Arab world, defeat the Arab national movement, and create puppet regimes which would gravitate to the regional Israeli power.
In providing documentation on the above points, Sharett's Diary deals a deadly blow to a number of important interpretations which are still being presented as historical truths. Among these are items listed on the webpage introduction from which these extracts are taken.
Last edited by Big_Bird on Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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On Lebanon:
3. The continuing, violent Israeli aggression in Lebanon still is being attributed, shamelessly, to Israeli security needs. In particular, Israeli spokesmen, echoed by Western media, try to explain lsrael's massive intervention in Lebanon and the Lebanese events in general, with the following historical arguments:
a)In the struggle between Muslims and Christians, a conflict which would have broken out regardless of outside interference, Israel's role has been limited to the defense of the Christian minority.
b)The presence of the Palestinian resistance, or in Israeli terminology, of Palestinian terrorism in that country required Israeli intervention.
Sharett's Diary, however, provides the entire documentation of how in 1954 Ben Gurion developed the diabolic plans to "Christianize" Lebanon, i.e., to invent and create from scratch the inter-Lebanese conflict, and of how a detailed blueprint for the partition and subordination of that country to Israel was elaborated by Israel more than fifteen years before the Palestinian presence became a political factor in Lebanon. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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On the use (and manipulation) of terror:
The use of terror and aggression to provoke or create the appearance of an Arab threat to lsrael's existence was summed up by the then "number two" of the Zionist state's hierarchy:
"I have been meditating on the long chain of false incidents and hostilities we have invented, and on the many clashes we have provoked which cost us so much blood, and on the violations of the law by our men-all of which brought grave disasters and determined the whole course of events and contributed to the security crisis".
A week earlier, Moshe Dayan, then lsrael's chief of staff, explained why Israel needed to reject Any border security arrangements offered by the neighboring Arab States, or by the United Nations, as well as the formal security guarantees suggested by the United States. Such guarantees, he predicted, might "tie lsrael's hands." Presumably, that would render unjustifiable or even impossible those attacks and incursions across the armistice lines which through the mid- 1950s went under the euphemistic name of reprisal actions. These actions, Dayan said,
"are our vital lymph. They . . . . help us maintain a high tension among our population and in the army. . . in order to have young men go to the Negev we have to cry out that it is in danger". (26 May 1955, 102 1)
The creation of a siege mentality in Israeli society was necessary to complement the prefabricated myth of the Arab threat. The two elements were intended to feed each other. Although Israeli society faced a serious risk of social and cultural disintegration under the impact of a mass immigration of Asian and North African Jews into the pre-state's ideologically homogeneous community, the purpose of the siege mentality was not so much that of attaining a defensive cohesiveness in Israel's Jewish society. It was calculated principally to "eliminate the moral brakes" required for a society to fully support a police which constituted a complete reversal of the collective ethical code on which its formal education was based and from which it was supposed to derive its vital strength. |
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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On the subject of (rarely acknowledged) Israeli war attrocities
Aggression and terrorism had been exercised by the Zionists before and during the 1947-48 war. The following testimony of a soldier who participated in the occupation of the Palestinian village of Duelma in 1948 is only the most recently disclosed of a long chain of evidence:
| Quote: |
| Killed between 80 to 100 Arabs, women and children. To kill the children they fractured their heads with sticks. There was not one house without corpses. The men and women of the villages were pushed into houses without food or water. Then the saboteurs came to dynamite the houses. One commander ordered a soldier to bring two women into a house he was about to blow up. . . . Another soldier prided himself upon having raped an Arab woman before shooting her to death. Another Arab woman with her newborn baby was made to clean the place for a couple of days, and then they shot her and the baby. Educated and well-mannered commanders who were considered "good guys". . . became base murderers, and this not in the storm of battle, but as a method of expulsion and extermination. The fewer the Arabs who remain, the better (quoted in Davar, 9 June 1979) |
But these episodes did not filter through to the society at large. The War of Independence was ritualized, on the contrary, as a miraculous victory of (Jewish) right against (Arab) might. Deir Yassin was (falsely) described by tile ruling Labor establishment as an isolated and even condemnable case, a product of the brutality of the minority lrgun group. Manuals, school textbooks, history books, anthologies and the media placidly glorified the moral quality of the war, the "Puritv of the weapons" used by the army, the Jewish ethos underlying the state.
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Comment by Big_Bird: Israeli attrocities are not widely publicised (in the West) but they are well documented. In the 1990s 'the new historians' of which Benny Morris is probably the most famous published much research on these crimes, showing that what happened in Deir Yassin was not an anomaly. I think it's quite important to note that, as there is a widespread belief among many that attrocities are primarily committed by Arabs and not vice versa.
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
| Big Bird, why do you hate "Isralies"? Do you have a Palestinian lover you are defending? |
Now why would you deduct from anything I've posted that I hate the 'Isralies' (sic) ?
This says a lot more about you, and your 'with us or against us' style logic. It's clear that George W Bush's speeches are aimed primarily at 'thinkers' like you. |
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igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Israelis Training Death Squads In Colombia
Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:59:15
The Interpol issued an arrest warrant for three Israelis who are accused of training Colombian private armies, right-wing death squads and drug cartels, Israeli Ynetnews reported.
The Ynetnews added that the three Israelis, Yair Klein, Melnik Ferri and Abraham Tzedaka are wanted for charges of criminal conspiracy, and instruction in terrorism. If convicted, they could face 11 years in prison.
The statements were made by a spokesperson of the Colombian Domestic Intelligence, talking on condition of anonymity.
Also, the three Israelis are accused of helping set up training camps in order to train private armies working for drug lords Pablo Escobar and Gonzalo Rodriguez Gacha. The camps are meant to train the mercenaries about explosives, car bombs and high-profile killings, the Ynetnews added.
One of the accused Israelis, Klein, appeared in a video filmed in 1998. The video is used to train far-right squads.
The Ynetnews also said that Klein spent 16 months in a prison in Sierra Leon for his role in what is known as �gun-for-blood� diamonds deal.
Klein was interviewed in Israel by the Carocal TV in March, and denied that he ever worked with the cocaine cartels, but said that he trained far-right death squads on methods to �eliminate leftists insurgency�, the Ynetnews said
According to Klein, he was originally hired �with the blessing of the Colombian Defense Ministry�. His job was to organize the security of the banana industry in Uraba region.
Many of the mercenaries he trained carried some of the most brutal massacres in Columbia.
Bur Klein argues that these squads are not �trained to kill� and that they are trained to defend themselves.
Also, Escobar is behind bringing down airplanes, detonating police headquarters and offered his army of assassins a set rate for the killing of policemen, the Ynetnews said.
In 1993, Escobar was shot down by the police in Madelin, his hometown, while Gacha was killed by the police in 1989.
SO/IS |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.
It seems that the drivers of Israeli policy are the ones who hate Israelis, not you and your ....
I don't think that you hate "Isralies" either, whatever they are.  |
Point taken however you ought to realize that your argument cuts both ways.
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Myths of the Middle East
by Joseph Farah
I've been quiet since Israel erupted in fighting spurred by disputes over the Temple Mount.
Until now, I haven't even bothered to say, "See, I told you so." But I can't resist any longer. I feel compelled to remind you of the column I wrote just a couple weeks before the latest uprising. Yeah, folks, I predicted it. That's OK. Hold your applause.
After all, I wish I had been wrong. More than 80 people have been killed since the current fighting in and around Jerusalem began. And for what?
If you believe what you read in most news sources, Palestinians want a homeland and Muslims want control over sites they consider holy. Simple, right?
Well, as an Arab-American journalist who has spent some time in the Middle East dodging more than my share of rocks and mortar shells, I've got to tell you that these are just phony excuses for the rioting, trouble-making and land-grabbing.
Isn't it interesting that prior to the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, there was no serious movement for a Palestinian homeland?
"Well, Farah," you might say, "that was before the Israelis seized the West Bank and Old Jerusalem."
That's true. In the Six-Day War, Israel captured Judea, Samaria and East Jerusalem. But they didn't capture these territories from Yasser Arafat. They captured them from Jordan's King Hussein. I can't help but wonder why all these Palestinians suddenly discovered their national identity after Israel won the war.
The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.
Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.
There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.
But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.
What about Islam's holy sites? There are none in Jerusalem.
Shocked? You should be. I don't expect you will ever hear this brutal truth from anyone else in the international media. It's just not politically correct.
I know what you're going to say: "Farah, the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem represent Islam's third most holy sites."
Not true. In fact, the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless times. It never mentions Jerusalem. With good reason. There is no historical evidence to suggest Mohammed ever visited Jerusalem.
So how did Jerusalem become the third holiest site of Islam? Muslims today cite a vague passage in the Koran, the seventeenth Sura, entitled "The Night Journey." It relates that in a dream or a vision Mohammed was carried by night "from the sacred temple to the temple that is most remote, whose precinct we have blessed, that we might show him our signs. ..." In the seventh century, some Muslims identified the two temples mentioned in this verse as being in Mecca and Jerusalem. And that's as close as Islam's connection with Jerusalem gets -- myth, fantasy, wishful thinking. Meanwhile, Jews can trace their roots in Jerusalem back to the days of Abraham.
The latest round of violence in Israel erupted when Likud Party leader Ariel Sharon tried to visit the Temple Mount, the foundation of the Temple built by Solomon. It is the holiest site for Jews. Sharon and his entourage were met with stones and threats. I know what it's like. I've been there. Can you imagine what it is like for Jews to be threatened, stoned and physically kept out of the holiest site in Judaism?
So what's the solution to the Middle East mayhem? Well, frankly, I don't think there is a man-made solution to the violence. But, if there is one, it needs to begin with truth. Pretending will only lead to more chaos. Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name.
� 2000 WorldNetDaily.com |
| Quote: |
| the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said: |
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| The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism |
So let me ask you RSR Refugee point blank is there anything up here in this post that is not accurate?
Yes or No?
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, it's terribly unreasonable for any Israeli government to insist that those with whom they negotiate first officially recognize their right to exist as a nation.
Isn't there an Arab apologist conference in Seoul for Big Bird, refugee, and all their ilk to attend? (sure ought to be) |
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igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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AUDIO INTERVIEW
We are featuring an interview with Tony Malone, author of The Bible For People Who Hate The Bible, on the Israel/Palestinian conflict. We talk about the origins of this conflict in regards to the Bible and Zionism. We address the Biblical precedents for the behaviors of modern Israel, and we discussed possible outcomes of the middle eastern conflict in relation to Bible "prophecy"; whether or not the Biblical patriarch Abraham was a Jew (in any sense of the word); whether or not there are "End Times" believers within modern governments trying to manipulate events to fulfill Biblical predictions; and a host of other subjects.
Although this program was recorded back in August 2006, this topic is still a very important issue to address
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2007/02feb/RICR-070218.html |
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