Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Mr. BlackCat]

Question:

If your contract says "Paid Holiday of ____ days" does that mean that the classes that you WOULD have worked on those days should be calculated for OT purposes? Same with national holidays. My employer (both last year and this one) say 'paid holiday' means I just have the days off and they don't have to 'pay' anything because I'm not working. I realized I should have clarified this with my employer beforehand, but last year everyone told me to accept it at that job. Now I'm hearing different.

This is a matter of around 300$ for a week off, not to mention 50$ here and there for the one day holidays. I'm really not trying to be petty, but I wouldn't accept not getting paid for holidays in Canada either.

Thanks.

[insam]

Do you have a base (pre-overtime) salary in your contract (e.g. 2.3 million per month or whatever...), or do you simply get paid by the hour? Most contracts have base salaries and that is the amount you are entitled to for a month that includes holidays or vacations. I do believe that base hours should be included in the time you are away. For example, if your base salary requires 6 hours per day, then every paid holiday/vacation day should be the equivalent of 6 hours. That way if you were off two weeks and then worked two weeks with overtime hours, you should receive overtime pay for the two weeks you worked additional hours. Are you asking whether you should ask for overtime you would otherwise have done DURING the vacation period? That makes no sense to me whatsoever, but your base pay shouldn't be deducted for paid vacation/holidays.

[JJJ]

Paid holiday means I don't work Christmas but I get paid. I get Kim Sum Dong's birthday off because it's a national holiday and I get paid. It's a holiday and I get paid.

Contracts usually say 10 working days off plus national holidays.

Unfortunately if you work in Korea on those days, you probably will not get time and a half but maybe an extra day off (or not).

Sorry, but I can't believe it took you 2 years to figure out you are getting shafted. You're employer is an arse.

[insam]

On a side note, I recently viewed a contract that boasted '4 weeks paid vacation', but it turned out one week was at 추석 (korean thanksgiving) and one week at 설날 (lunar new year). In my mind that is two weeks vacation and likely means they are open on some national holidays. Most places will always take what they can and disguise their benefits to make them seem more than they are.

[Mr. BlackCat]

Sorry, I'll be more clear.

For example, I get paid a base salary of 2.4 for 120 teaching hours/month. I do 7 hrs./day x 20 days=140 hours. Therefore 20 hours of OT.

BUT: In July I don't work for 5 days due to a PAID holiday. So, 7 hrs./day x 15 days = 105 hours. No OT.

My question is, should I count the hours that I would have worked those 5 days so I get the OT?

I actually understand it if I don't. I understand it if I do. I'm just wondering what the norm is. I don't lose any base pay for the holiday, so its not like I'm being penalized for the days off. Technically...

In Canada/elsewhere I've only worked hourly jobs or salary jobs that didn't 'allow' for OT (meaning none was paid regardless). This situation is unique to me.

To the poster who said s/he can't believe it took me this long to figure this out let me say this: You're right. But I have a feeling there are things here that even the lifers don't get.

In the end my boss isn't going to do anything she doesn't want to and I'm not sure how far I'd want to take this. I'm more just curious now.

[insam]

It seems your base pay is for 6 hours per day, correct? Then, that is what you are entitled to during vacation. If you are getting your base pay, then as I see it you are getting paid vacation and certainly not getting shafted. If you can negotiate the extra hour per day, then more power to you; but I can't imagine an employer paying overtime in that situation. Overtime is overtime, you get it if you work it. It is sort of like extra credit. Students are usually asked to do something extra in order to receive it. In your case, not working at all would preclude you from deserving the extra pay. Does this make sense? I just don't get the concept of a business paying overtime and getting no service in return. That is the whole point in distinguishing between base pay and overtime pay. No matter what, they are responsible for base pay; but if you are not physically present, there is no way they are responsible for overtime pay. Maybe they would let you come in an hour per day or work one day of your vacation, then you would be working overtime during the period in question.

Alternatively 15 days x 7 hours= 105
plus 5 days (vacation) x 6 hours= 30
total is 135=some overtime

I would suggest this to them and see how they respond.

[poet13]

I hear ya OP. My old boss did the same thing.

I was contracted for 120 hours a month.
During chuseok, we had four days off. For some reason we were closed one or two other days. So what she did, was load me up to where I was working 12 hours a day...all the way to 120 hours. She invented all kinds of strange classes. I even interviewed public school teachers for a test they were going to have. The kicker was the last evening when she cancelled my last class cause it would put me over 120 hours for the month. So I worked my 120 in 5 or 6 fewer business days. I only received my base salary.


As far as working fewer than your contracted hours, think of it this way.

Let's say you take your paid vacation of 2 weeks. Let's say that right after your vacation is Chuseok, leaving only 6 work days in the month.

Does that mean that she can work you 20 hours for each of the 6 days and not pay you overtime? I think not.

Yes, the example is extreme and highly unlikely, but I find sometimes it helps make things clearer.

I hope that helps.

[yingwenlaoshi]

The 120 hr thing in a contract is a horsesh1t clause. I think mine has it, but that's not the way it is followed.

OVERTIME IS DAILY, PEOPLE. DAILY!

[Mr. BlackCat]

Poet, that's what I'm talking about. Last July I was loaded up with classes but then given some days off. It seems as though its going to happen again this year. That's why I'm asking. To me, it doesn't seem like a paid holiday if my employer can make me work more during the other 3 weeks without compensation. Its not really a holiday if you can make up the hours by working 10 hours a day for the rest of the month.

If I'm still actually physically at work for 120 hours in a month and then given some days off, it seems strange to me not to receive some OT. I'd be fine with only counting 'base hours' on my days off like another poster suggested. And I think ying is right, OT should be calculated at least by the week to prevent this sort of thing from happening. Oh well, live and learn.

Could you imagine a job in North America getting away with that? Sure, you can have 2 weeks vacation! But you have to work 80 hours the week before and the week after.

Like I said, though, my boss is going to do what she's going to do. Its a good job and I guess I should be happy I'm only getting a little shafted. Oh, Korea...

[JJJ]

Wow, after reading your explaination of how you think the contract is based and what your boss thinks....jeezus, I am as confused as you are.

Sorry, I thought it was more cut and dried like, you work Dec. 31st, get the 1st off (but still rated at your 6 hours/day and paid) and work the 2nd. What was I thinking, I am in Korea, the slippery and slimey slope of Asia. I need to make sure my next job doesn't confuse me like this.

[yingwenlaoshi]

[Mr. BlackCat]

JJJ, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic. I don't think Korea is slimey, I just think we all have different points of references on things. Here it is work, work and more work. I might not like that, but that's how it is. I feel like I need to defend what I think is right, but I know how to choose my battles.

In my specific case I never asked for clarification on the matter and I know its my fault. I still feel like my contract and logic is on my side, but we'll see where that goes. I do have my hour range specified in my contract, but agreed to intensives in January and July/August. I got OT for the January ones, but now it seems like I won't get anything extra for working the July/August ones because my holiday extends into both months thereby negating any extra hours worked.

I know I can reject the extra classes outright or demand that the days I am on vacation be counted at the base hours towards my OT rate for the month. I don't expect OT hours to count during that time because like the previous poster said, anything can happen.

I was just looking for the norm on the issue to know if my mind was in the right place. I feel like I work around a lot of 'Yes men and women', moreso at my first job, so its hard to have a discussion about such things at work. Due to that I thought a lot of BS was normal at hogwans here (and it is if you get into the wrong ones) and now I'm starting to realize that if you just speak up things might actually happen.

Thanks for your help.