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Yesterday
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Land of the Morning DongChim (Kancho)
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 Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject: wow - koreans helping the Japanese? |
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Wow - interesting read this morning...
I didn't know Koreans were fighting alongside their Japanese friends in World War II against americans and philippinos....
"The Korean guards were the most abusive... the Koreans were anxious to get blood on their bayonets; and then they thought they were veterans."
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March ) |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Many Koreans were fighting and living alongside the Japanese. In fact many of the guards in charge of maintaining prisoners of war were men who were lowly respected among the Japanese and were determined to prove themselves by their brutality against those lower than they - the prisoners.
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At my father�s funeral in England some time ago, I fell into conversation with his closest friend. They had worked together in a local bank. After some words of condolence, he asked if I was still living in Korea. ``Yes, I am,�� I said. By that time, I had been in Seoul for 18 years. It was more familiar to me than England. ``What do you think of the Koreans?�� he asked. I waxed lyrical about the Irish of the East. After a minute, I knew I had lost my audience. ``Maybe they have changed from my time,�� he said.
Then he told me his story. He had met his Koreans in the 1940s, when he was a prisoner of war under the Japanese. Like thousands of other young British and allied soldiers in World War II, he had been captured in Southeast Asia. The Japanese were unspeakably cruel to those they defeated. I worked in London once with a man who had, as a POW, witnessed guards executing a lineup of Australians with a bayonet up the rectum. Many of the Japanese guards in those camps were from Korea, which, you will know, was part of Japan then.
In fact, my father�s friend told me, the Koreans were the worst. ``Horrible people,�� he said. I�ve never had the heart to tell my Korean friends this story because it is hurtful. But also because I know they would have no idea what this man might be talking about. But they should. The government of President Roh Moo-hyun is trying to clear up the pain from this period and needs serious help with its moral compass. Take, for example, the outrageous reversal this week by a Korean government panel of the rulings by allied tribunals after World War II on Korean war criminals.
The Truth Commission on Forced Mobilization under the Japanese Imperialism (sic) announced on Monday that 83 of the 148 Koreans convicted of war crimes were victims of Japan and should not be blamed. A ruling on three more is pending, and families have requested a review of the 23 Koreans who were executed. I accept that war crimes tribunals are biased. The victor catches the losers in his net. And that net had holes. Just as some got away _ like the monsters of Unit 731 in China, who did gruesome medical experiments on prisoners but were let go by the Americans in exchange for their biological warfare research findings _ so perhaps some were unjustly accused.
But not all were found guilty. War tribunals in Japan tried 25 Class A criminals (for ``crimes against peace,�� ie, starting a war) and 300,000 in the Class B (war crimes) and Class C (crimes against humanity) categories. Around 5,600 were prosecuted in numerous trials elsewhere in Asia, and 4,400 were convicted. Of these, around 1,000 were executed, including the 23 Koreans. The 83 Koreans in question were Class B and Class C war criminals who received sentences from one and half years to life.
They were not tried as soldiers or POW camp guards who had done their jobs. They were tried for over-zealousness, for decisions and actions over and above the call of duty. They were the thugs, the brutes, the monsters, the most horrible of the ``horrible people�� my father�s friend knew. By what authority does the Truth Commission have to remove their individual responsibility with its class act defense of nationality? Such skewed morality led to the crimes against the lowest class _ ``prisoners�� _ in the first place. People who committed crimes against humanity are not innocent by virtue of being Korean any more than Japanese who brutalized Koreans are innocent by virtue of being Japanese.
If the Truth Commission wants to get its moral bearings straight and live up to its name, it should examine the broader assumptions with which it is approaching its mission to resolve the pain of the past. In doing so, it should recognize that the idea that Koreans were all unhappy citizens of imperialism bar a few collaborators is a myth. Koreans were Japanese citizens, and it did not occur to many to support the allies against their own country. Ask anyone who lived in that period, and they will tell you that the political correctness of the post-colonial generation is distorted.
They will also tell you that from 1937-42, Koreans in the Japanese army were volunteers _ who included King Kojong�s son, an army general _ and that large-scale forced conscription only started in 1944. The Commission should know that those rounding up comfort women were Koreans and those torturing people in police stations were mostly Koreans. Koreans, in other words, were more ``horrible�� to Koreans in many cases than the Japanese were. The solution to this dilemma is to accept the notion of individual responsibility. I asked my father�s friend why he thought the Koreans camp guards were so nasty. ``When the camp commander was angry about something, he�d berate his officers,�� he explained. ``The officers would take their frustration out on the Japanese privates, and they would take theirs out on the Korean privates. The Koreans would then take their anger out on the only people beneath them _ that was us.�� |
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| In 1907, Japan forced King Kojong to step down, and his son became the puppet emperor of Korea. King Kojong's son, the last prince of the Chosun Dynasty, was installed as King Sunjong. He was a pro-Japanese and approved the Annexation Agreement on August 29, 1910. The Chosun Dynasty founded by General Yi Sung-gye 519 years ago became part of Japan. Many of the pro-Japanese Koreans were rewarded with Japanese royal titles - counts, lords, etc., were given large tracts of land, and became rich and powerful under the Japanese rule. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| A lot of Koreans were in full approval of Japan's occupation of Korea. Quite a few fought against the Allied forces, including future president Park Junghee. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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The Korean POW guards in the Pacific War had a well-deserved reputation for brutality(not that the Japanese were softies). Then again, many Koreans had served with the Kempeitai in Korea and were often brutal in the course of their duties.
In the Vietnam War, the ROK Tiger (infantry) Division had a well-deserved reputation for brutality. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| My stance on the subject isn't to continue the so-called Korean-bashing popularised on forums such as these, but to gain a better and fair understanding of it. The house is dirty and there are things under the rug, better start cleaning those out. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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1. Don't ever rely on wikipedia for valid information, it can be editted by average joes, not historians.
2. Koreans do look different from Japanese, Chinese and other cultures. Differences on a whole are there, but it takes a trained eye to see them. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kaizer wrote: |
| koreans helping the japanese? They were forced to fight for japanese.... |
Korean military participation until 1943
Year | Applicants | # accepted
1938 | 2,946 | 406
1939 | 12,348 | 613
1940 | 84,443 | 3,060
1941 | 144,743 | 3,208
1942 | 254,273 | 4,077
1943 | 303,294 | 6,300
식민통치의 허상과 실상, p. 76 |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Bibbitybop wrote: |
1. Don't ever rely on wikipedia for valid information, it can be editted by average joes, not historians.
2. Koreans do look different from Japanese, Chinese and other cultures. Differences on a whole are there, but it takes a trained eye to see them. |
Definitely. I can tell about 80% of the time the difference between Chinese, Thai, Japanese, Korean and other south asian (I can't tell between a Vietmenese or a Malaysian). Same with Europeans, I can usually tell Italian, Spanish, French, German, English, or Eastern European just by looking. It's a skill some have, some don't.
Ask me to tell the difference between sounds or music and being tone deaf, I wouldn't be able to help you. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| (I can't tell between a Vietmenese or a Malaysian). |
Really? I would think that would have to be the easiest one out of all of them. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| (I can't tell between a Vietmenese or a Malaysian). |
Really? I would think that would have to be the easiest one out of all of them. |
I've never met any, so I have no comparison base  |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| ajgeddes wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| (I can't tell between a Vietmenese or a Malaysian). |
Really? I would think that would have to be the easiest one out of all of them. |
I've never met any, so I have no comparison base |
Vietnamese can often pass as a Chinese person or sometimes even a Korean person while a Malaysian in general looks similar to a Indonesian or some Filippinos.
Usually, the Vietnamese can be recognized by saying "Motobiee" as you walk by. (Joking)
Last edited by ajgeddes on Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Going by facial features alone, it is harder to distinguish out the differences betwen Asians (as with Anglo-Saxons!). I've met a many chinese people who looked Japanese, Korean and Singaporean.
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| Edit: This isn't a foolproof method of course, which is why the Japanese first enacted a law to keep Koreans from taking Japanese names as they feared they could slip into the country under a Japanese name and identity and maybe bring communism with them. |
Was this fully implemented? I thought the Koreans were taught Japanese and given Japanese names (if at least the elite). The Koreans in Japan were essentially naturalised as Japanese where many probably served during the war, but it was the native Koreans who were not easily given full rights to fight as soldiers because they couldn't be trusted. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| rocklee wrote: |
Going by facial features alone, it is harder to distinguish out the differences betwen Asians (as with Anglo-Saxons!). I've met a many chinese people who looked Japanese, Korean and Singaporean.
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I can still usually get it just by that (and height/build too). Adding in fashion or other things of course helps a lot though. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I can too but having lived in Asia for ample time I can see enough similarities to tell where a Japanese, Korean or Singaporean originally came from. |
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