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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: English education majors: what the hell are they learning? |
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Does anyone teach English education majors? If so, I'd love to know what it is they spend four years doing. How does someone spend four years learning how to teach English and be absolutely incapable of ever using English as the language of instruction? How does someone spend four years studying English grammar and be no better than top high school students at finding common grammatical mistakes? What exactly is going in these programmes? How does someone spend four years studying English paragraph construction and yet always start each faulty new sentence on a new line in the rare event they ever have to write English?
So many people constantly talk about this or that thing that has to change at schools, but what is going on at uni to produce such a bunch of incompetents? |
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Scotticus
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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English Ed majors in American or Korean schools?
While there's certainly no excuse for not having a firm grasp of the English language, you are really oversimplifying English education if you think it amounts to an ability to know tons of grammar.
Grammar is an almost inconsequential part of teaching English in an English-speaking country. A good Ed. program is going to be pedagogy, curriculum planning, child/adolescent psychology and "subject" classes (where you're just plain reading books). I think, at least in most/many of the schools in America, grammar has taken a backseat to all the other concerns a teacher has when teaching English. From an ESL standpoint it sounds stupid to not know a ton of grammar rules, but in the real world (ie- teaching real English to native English speakers) it's just not a huge priority. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I'm talking about Korean English education majors in Korea.
BTW, your second sentence is a comma splice.  |
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Scotticus
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
BTW, your second sentence is a comma splice. |
Can you tell I was an English Ed major for a bit? :p |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Scotticus wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
BTW, your second sentence is a comma splice. |
Can you tell I was an English Ed major for a bit? :p |
As someone who worked as a history TA for four years, I was guessing that might be the case. Actually your writing is perfectly clear, but when I was marking uni papers I found that the most awkward and unintelligible writing almost always came from English majors. |
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Scotticus
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
As someone who worked as a history TA for four years, I was guessing that might be the case. Actually your writing is perfectly clear, but when I was marking uni papers I found that the most awkward and unintelligible writing almost always came from English majors. |
That's actually funny that you say that. I had a couple friends who were dating. One was English Ed and the other was History. The English Ed. major would complain how boring, stilted and completely devoid of life her bf's writing was. Then he would complain about how her writing was too flowery and never got to the point. As someone who's connected to both disciplines, I thought it was hilarious watching them play out the stereotypes in a live-action setting. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
Yes, I'm talking about Korean English education majors in Korea.
BTW, your second sentence is a comma splice. |
Oops, reading comprehension problem on my part - nothing wrong with the grammar of the second sentence! |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| We didn't learn much at my uni either. The practical part was only one semester. Several courses were a waste of time. Teacher training should be longer. |
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Saxiif
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| The problem is the teaching style. Most of it seems to consist of taking difficult/technical English paragraphs and discussing the grammatical structure and every detail of its meaning in Korea, which does *beep*-all for improving your written/spoken English. |
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Woden
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Location: Eurasia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
Yes, I'm talking about Korean English education majors in Korea.
BTW, your second sentence is a comma splice. |
You've used that one on me before. Is that your piece de resistance?
Do you really think it matters, I thought you said you weren't a propagator of prescriptivist grammar? |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Saxiif wrote: |
| The problem is the teaching style. Most of it seems to consist of taking difficult/technical English paragraphs and discussing the grammatical structure and every detail of its meaning in Korea, which does *beep*-all for improving your written/spoken English. |
I think we've all seen the TV shows which feature nothing but this being done. They make me want to kill myself. |
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Saxiif
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
| Saxiif wrote: |
| The problem is the teaching style. Most of it seems to consist of taking difficult/technical English paragraphs and discussing the grammatical structure and every detail of its meaning in Korea, which does *beep*-all for improving your written/spoken English. |
I think we've all seen the TV shows which feature nothing but this being done. They make me want to kill myself. |
Yeah. My brother in-law's wife is trying to learn English. I'm over at their house all the time but she's always too shy to try talking to me in English. Instead she's taking a class and it gave her a whole bunch of very difficult (way beyond her level) English dialogues for her to parse. My wife spent the whole dinner translating all of the dialogues into Korean for her so she could do the homework without actually reading any English whatsoever.  |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:48 am Post subject: Re: English education majors: what the hell are they learnin |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
Does anyone teach English education majors? If so, I'd love to know what it is they spend four years doing. How does someone spend four years learning how to teach English and be absolutely incapable of ever using English as the language of instruction? How does someone spend four years studying English grammar and be no better than top high school students at finding common grammatical mistakes? What exactly is going in these programmes? How does someone spend four years studying English paragraph construction and yet always start each faulty new sentence on a new line in the rare event they ever have to write English?
So many people constantly talk about this or that thing that has to change at schools, but what is going on at uni to produce such a bunch of incompetents? |
Lawmaker Urges Stricter English Teacher Evaluation Program
by Jung Sung-ki, Korea Times (August 28, 2006)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200608/kt2006082817051811990.htm
"English teaching at primary and secondary schools here appears to be diminishing. According to a recent survey, a growing number of Korean teachers of English conduct their classes in Korean only,...
those using only Korean in class rose to 12.9 percent last year from 10.7 percent in 2004 and 9 percent in 2003.
We believe there are many reasons why teachers use more Korean than English in their classes. Foremost is their lack of ability to speak English fluently...."
Source:
School English Classes: Quality of Teaching Appears to Be Diminishing
Editorial, Korea Times (June 7, 2006)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/opinion/200606/kt2006060717004354050.htm
Just remember: The Korean English teacher teaching English classes only in Korean probably has tenure until retirement age. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:58 am Post subject: |
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There are several basic procedures that korean teachers typically mess up on I've noticed.
1) Don't give students the answers too quickly.
The idea should be to make students think and challenge them, not bore them by delivering everything all at once in a monotone spiel.
2) Don't divide the students attention
Kids can only focus on one exercise or activity at a time.
3) Create interest in the topic first
Warm the kids up and into the lesson. Spark some curiosity before you deliver the punchline.
4) Don't favour boys over girls
Pay as much attention and give as much opportunities to the girls as well as the boys...
5) Don't be too picky over grammar
in the early stages, talking and being understood in English is more important than being correct... |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| I was just thinking the exact thought as the OP. How is it possible for my Korean co teachers, who are all English Majors, to not be able to string together three or four words in a coherent way? A few of them can not understand simple questions such as "how are you today." I have a co-worker who likes to teach "gonnna" in all its forms to our kids. Did I mention that many of them also teach at local elemantary and middle schools. |
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